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If you kite and wing which to do when?

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OzBungy
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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby OzBungy » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:31 am

Not in the way you're thinking. On a 40L board you're going to want to do a water start and that means enough wind, power and technique for you to haul yourself out of the water. It's easier with a bigger kite and a smaller foil because you have enough power and resistance to hammer things and get yourself going.

It gets more complicated because low aspect, thick profile large foil will be overpowered by a diving kite and stand up on its tail. You have to almost stand on the nose of the board with both feet to hold it down (which is kind of fun). A high aspect large foil is a bit more docile but still requires a more gentle touch than a smaller foil.


The light wind kite foiling problem I am looking to solve is that in very light winds it can be difficult to get that blast of power to get your self up and away on the foil. THe board slides through the water, reducing power, or the foil sits on the bottom, or you struggle to keep the kite in the air.

Where a Peak would be good is with say a 100L board and a big foil. The attraction of the Peak is that it could fly above your head in a light breeze while you walk your wing foil board into deeper water, climb on, get to your feet, then do things with the kite.

The problem with wings is that they simply don't generate any significant power. The "line length" is your arms. You can flap and pump all you want but if you don't get enough board speed to foil you're stuffed. A kite has the whole length of the lines to swoop and generate apparent wind. Even in light winds there is a heap of power on tap, but sometimes it's just not enough when combined with everything else that is going on.

I'm not sure a Peak 4 is suitable for a beginner. They're not made to water relaunch. People are saying a 50% chance of relaunching in ideal conditions. I learned to kiteboard on a open cell ram air buggy kite and a 9' surfboard. I think I might have relaunched it twice. That was actually not a problem. I just floated in, poured out the water and sand, hauled it up in the air and took off again. It was fun.
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Dontsink (Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:49 am)
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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Dontsink » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:03 am

I have 85l wingfoil and 105l supfoil boards so starting with kite up and standing on the board would be OK i think.
The foil is a Kujira 980 or 1210, mid aspect surfy wings.
The relaunching bit of the Peak4 worries me :)

From reviews i have found the ConceptAir Firefly is very relaunchable ,and can be setup in the water (i am talking about flat water <10kt conds) ,do not know how easy or impossibly frustrating this would be for a kite dummy in reality.

For low wind the possibility of setting up in the water would be great,opens up many spots where flying a kite on the shore is dangerous or completely forbidden.

This is interesting,only would need a kite&bar&lines and these non inflatable kites take very little room in a bag...

And some camo shorts,to wear over my wetsuit :)

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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Dontsink » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:42 pm

Something like this:



Jyoder
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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Jyoder » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:24 am

But…
Attachments
5767B140-820E-4B76-9939-36459A4DFB42.jpeg

Dontsink
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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Dontsink » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:07 am

Jyoder wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:24 am
But…
Right on point, and i probaby won't go down this rabbit hole.
Too many options lead to stress ,at least for me :)
Thx Jyoder!

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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby OzBungy » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:16 am

I've been doing a fair amount of winging and kite foiling lately and it's stabilised into a bit of a pattern.

If the wind is solid then I'll go winging, especially if there's waves about. Gliding on a wave is really enjoyable. Dropping in and carving a wave face is off the scale!!

If wind is a bit offshore, or the beach is crowded, or if there is a crew about then winging. It's a bit surprising that other wing foilers go to the same spots and choose the spots on wind direction. I go where they aren't, then ride upwind and visit the various spots before downwinding back again.

If the wind is inconsistent in strength or light, or I'm just out for a bit of relaxed fun, then kite foiling.

Most problems with winging are resolved with more skill and the right gear. A big foil solves a heap of problems. But, the "dead in the water" syndrome is a major vulnerability for wing foiling. The wind drops a couple of knots and you're stuck. Even the local "pros" get stuck. A kite foil just glides comfortably through all that. It's kind of fun to cruise by the downed wing foilers just sitting and waiting for the wind to come back.
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Peter_Frank (Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:43 pm)
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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Whattheflock » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:05 pm

Alot of winging lately as I just got into it. Even exploring super light wind that I'd barely get out to kitefoil to play around with pumping onto foil and slog around. I like the technique and makes for good excersize. Just having fun for now.

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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Jyoder » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:08 pm

I’m still not 100% sold on winging. I’ve been paying my dues to build some skills (transitions, foot switch, pumping with wing flagged), but have started to plateau where progression slows and requires more reps and effort, and so it’s hard to keep pushing to get to a dynamic high level like my kitefoiling. Getting a fast efficient wingfoil (Moses W1000) has helped but I still struggle with feeling awkward, sluggish, and bulky compared to pocketboard and race kitefoil. Guess I need to keep watching videos of high level wingfoiling like what’s coming out of SF Bay Area and the Gorge to keep up the drive and stoke, or put the wing gear away for a couple months.

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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby bigtone667 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:59 pm

OzBungy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:16 am
I've been doing a fair amount of winging and kite foiling lately and it's stabilised into a bit of a pattern.

If the wind is solid then I'll go winging, especially if there's waves about. Gliding on a wave is really enjoyable. Dropping in and carving a wave face is off the scale!!

If wind is a bit offshore, or the beach is crowded, or if there is a crew about then winging. It's a bit surprising that other wing foilers go to the same spots and choose the spots on wind direction. I go where they aren't, then ride upwind and visit the various spots before downwinding back again.

If the wind is inconsistent in strength or light, or I'm just out for a bit of relaxed fun, then kite foiling.

Most problems with winging are resolved with more skill and the right gear. A big foil solves a heap of problems. But, the "dead in the water" syndrome is a major vulnerability for wing foiling. The wind drops a couple of knots and you're stuck. Even the local "pros" get stuck. A kite foil just glides comfortably through all that. It's kind of fun to cruise by the downed wing foilers just sitting and waiting for the wind to come back.
And then there are days when everything hits the water and the person on the wing board is happily paddling back in (or simply sitting on the board and using their sail) and the kiter is swimming.

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Re: If you kite and wing which to do when?

Postby Flyboy » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:14 am

There is a small crew of windfoilers at one of my local spots. They have been wind foiling for the last 3- 4 years. In the last year & a half some of them have taken up wing foiling also. What they have been doing is not very impressive looking. Much of the time they're not on foil & pumping hard to get going. Their manoeuvring is a bit clumsy & lacking in fluency. But its been a historically poor summer for wind.

A few days ago we had the first decent fall blow at 20 knots plus. I was out zipping around with my 4m Peak. One of the wind/wingfoilers was out .... and for the first time it was possible to see - at my local spot - the potential of winging. This guy now has the skills to start carving up the waves & finally the wind to do it with. The ability to be strategically underpowered reaps dividends in stronger wind.


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