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Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

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Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:09 pm

Hi

I am quite experienced, and can pump up into foiling with the wing very good, footswitches no problem and riding waves okay too.

BUT, when letting the wing hang, and no waves really, I suck bigtime and can hardly get anywhere :wink:

Can see in all videos, that most can pump for as long as they like almost (okay, I know they cant, but pretty long...)

And I am going nowhere...

Has anybody else got the same challenge?

And any hints?

Got three different wings (and sizes) and I know it cant be the gear, but me.

There are many videos of wakefoilers or similar, where they just pump around easily.

And I get nowhere, bugger.

I also know the rythm and pace of pumping depends on the wing, and in particular the rear wing size (I use supersmall rear wings), but it should just be a matter of getting used to the frequency that your setup got.

Has anybody got the same problem - but learned how to over time?

I am a master of handling everything when using the wind (windsurf/kitesurf/wingsurf/hanggliding/soaring), but using a wingfoil to pump energy - I cant do :(

Okay, I dont really practice, as because nothing happens, I dont really chase to do so very often, but I still try at least, now and then.

Is it simply a matter of trying over and over, and let yourself drop in/on the water everytime when you fail?

I dont have the talent like most 20 year olds, or many others, I know, but my question is very sincere :D

8) Peter

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Nem0 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:33 pm

What is your Frontwing size and what’s your weight?

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby StellaBlu » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:40 pm

Hanging the wing behind you adds a lot of drag and it also prevents you from using your arms to generate energy. Have you practiced without the wing? It should be a bit easier. Because of this, you rarely see people with a wing pumping for long periods unless they have assistance from a bump.

Also, listen to the latest episode of The Progression Project podcast. Erik gives some good tips on pumping. Most notably starting with speed and using the pump to maintain (versus generate) speed, and thinking of the high point of the pump as the starting point that you return to on each pump. Starting as high on the foil and using that elevation for speed is key. If you start low on the foil you aren't going to go anywhere.

Im no expert - still dialing it in myself, but hopefully these tips help. And yes... Its difficult!

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Dwight » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:34 pm

Agree, the podcast episode posted yesterday unlocks the secret most people get wrong.

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:04 pm

Seeing the wakefoilers pumping looks stupid though, although probably the most efficient - but this "seagull wing flapping" with their arms, looks crazy.

We cant do that when having a wing in one hand though, so at least this is solved ha haa :rollgrin:

Still interested to hear how others, with same lack of talent as me, having solved the task of pumping a wingfoil freely?

8) Peter

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby juandesooka » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:52 am

You are not alone in this challenge. I have been sup foiling and now surf (prone) foiling for past 4 years or so, and I am throwing everything I have at progressing to the next level in pumping. Not because it's cool, as I am the first to agree it looks stupid as hell -- but because it is a fundamental tool that opens the door to an entirely new next level, where the ocean becomes a wave playground. I am just now progressing to regular 2 for 1s and occasional 3 for 1s. I feel like I am just barely almost on the verge of achieving the dream, but now face an impediment of fitness: both leg strength and cardio to be able to pump for more than 30 seconds.

One of the biggies is wings: high aspect is much easier. The high vs low aspect cadence (described by Zane S) as the difference between galloping on a horse vs trotting ... think long wide sine waves vs jagged up n down.
Another is having more lift, so larger surface area that comes from wider wing span. And thinner profile. A glider, not a fighter jet.

Less swing weight on board is helpful, but not as crucial as some insist: the two locals I know who are the best pumpers are not on the smallest boards, one proning on a fat 5.6 blue planet, one supping on a 7.2 JP, and they are both getting 3 for 1s regularly and pumping back out to the lineup.

Technique is key: you are jumping up to reset height and projecting forward as foil drops, over and over. Not jumping up and down in one place. Your arms are grabbing two imaginary ropes and pulling you forward; throwing water behind you; you are not throwing your arms forward (which drives you backwards...Brian Finch, foil the world).

I don't agree that holding a wing in hand holds back pumping very much. You can search videos of riders pumping with a wing pretty much indefinitely. Either without moving arms at all, or throwing water with free hand and partial with wing hand.

There are lots of resources on this in the surf foil world if you want to research it. But two youtube channels below are a good start.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WakeThief

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJv_6o ... RAQ/videos

and Progression Project is gold https://soundcloud.com/progressionproject

Boat or jetski training is optimal. You can also practice when wing: when it is lighter wind, practice pumping while pushing as tight upwind as you can, you will find the wing half luffs and your angle upwind increases a few degrees. You'll also find you are out of breath in half a minute. Or turn downwind, luff the wing, pump as far as you can before you lose height. Reset and do it again. And again. Or turn upwind, luff the wing, pump as far as you can....the nice thing is the wing will float nicely behind you with the wing; the not so nice thing is the wind is a counter force and probably won't last long. Just a few thousand repetitions and the right gear ...
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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Jyoder » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:11 am

Pumping up on foil and pumping to maintain foiling with no wind power are two different types of pumping.

1. To pump up on foil you’re pushing more on back leg and the timing is such that you are trying to exchange board speed energy for lift and height. You’re actually slowing down the board in the process but that loss is irrelevant once you’re up on foil and drag is reduced.

2. To pump to maintain or increase foiling speed, you’re pushing down hard on front leg to spend height for speed, then regaining height with delicate finesse trying not to spend energy on climb.

For the longest time I kept trying to pump like #1 to go without wind power and all that does is slow you down quicker.
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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:15 am

Thanks guys, really good feedback.

In particular Jyoder, that it is two very different ways to pump.

I dont agree you dont want go gain speed when pumping on foil - as you DO accelerate because you use the wing to get weightless, but also use the wing to shoot forward to get speed and lift at the same time.

But pumping the foil alone is different you say, and you also struggled thinking it was somewhat the same - interesting.

Yes I know it hard and "how to" you can google and see, but it did not help me.

Till now, as I have to think very differently from the classic "dolphining" which it is not.

But more of a "put all your weight on the forward leg and push down" to accelerate, and push it up again to repeat, and finding the rhytm that works with your given setup :thumb:

I have tried pumping while having the wing in hands, pulling - but it is easy, can feel the rhythm here, and IMO very different from the "no wind or wave power" situation.

We never really wakeboard around here in our country, as a sailing nation, and I dont like it either - anything on the water combined with a motor that is, so can not practice this way.

Will take it from here, knowing that I was not alone wondering how "the world" just pumps around like it is the easiest thing in the world, while I was getting nowhere except down on the surface quite fast :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Jyoder » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:58 pm

👍 You know you’re starting to get it right when the foil starts trying to yaw and roll out from under you when you really load up that front foot drive.

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Re: Pumping a wingfoil board - difficult for you or is it just me?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Out today with a 4 m2.

I had small progress for the first time, knowing now how different it is from wingpumping.

Found one thing though - I have to stand quite far forward with my front foot, to be able to really push the board down with force, when pumping.

Normally I prefer to stand quite far back with both feet, as then you can carve tight or turn tight on a small wave.

But a more forward foot for loading the nose down and transferring energy to the board, works better for me at least.

8) Peter


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