Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Forum for wing surfers
User avatar
jkrug
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:17 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 200 lbs
Gear: stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby jkrug » Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:23 pm

i like the Duotone Slick for the boom, but besides that, it seems to have a fairly serious design flaw in that it always want to flip over and fly upside down. just about every time i fall, the wing ends up upside down. even walking on the beach with the wing, it doesn't want to fly like other wings, it wants to flip over and if you don't let it, one of the wing tips will drag in the sand as you walk. this is annoying as hell when you're just walking up the beach, but especially trying to right it after every fall and even more so when entering and exiting the shorebreak. i recall one other person mentioning this elsewhere about the Slick, so if it's like that for everyone, i'm surprised they sell so much. maybe the boom compensates for it, but i won't be buying another unless that problem is fixed.
These users thanked the author jkrug for the post:
jakemoore (Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:17 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

Dave K
Frequent Poster
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:49 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Outer Banks
Style: Knee friendly strapless kite/wing foil
Gear: 10 m Airush Ultra / 7M Switch Helium, 5M RRD Passion, 120cm Groove Skate. Duotone Slick SLS 6/5/4/3m, Cabrinha Code 5’0”/78l wing board, Gong Veloce V2 L, XL., XXL, Gong Fluid V2 L, pro Fluid 42cm/freestyle 44 stabilizers, Gong HM 85cm V2 carbon mast, 75cm Al mast. Foil Drive + and 40L slingshot prone foil board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby Dave K » Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:35 am

I’ve been riding Duotone since Sept 2019. Originals, then Echo’s, now Slicks. The Duotone boom wings have always had more dihedral than most wave oriented handle wings which typically have very little dihedral (very flat looking from tip to tip). The original’s had a huge amount of dihedral and would “flip” very quickly. That also means they would be very unstable when you tried to luff them holding just the front handle. Of course they weren’t really designed as a luffing wave wing either, rather more of a freestyle riding wing

The Echo’s have reduced dihedral, and the Slicks even more so, but they both still have enough minor dihedral to still make them slightly more “flip” prone than your typical wave riding hand wing. When I luff my Slicks I use one hand on the front of the boom and not on the front handle. Very stable that way and super quick to repower.

One key advantage of dihedral is that it makes the wing “roll over” much easier when you are tacking. Most average wingers are jibing 95% of the time and could care less about tacking efficiency of the wing, or have no idea what that even means. Upwind transitions are more of a freestyle riding attribute. I tack as much as I jibe and really appreciate it. I learned my first toe-to heel and heel to-toe tacks on the original Dutones and the wing would roll over super easy and quickly without any help. With my Slicks (less dihedral) I’ll often need to use my head on toe-to-heel, and my hand on heel-to-toe to get the wing to roll over quickly enough.

Summary; not a design flaw, a design compromise………
These users thanked the author Dave K for the post (total 2):
airsail (Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:16 pm) • consumer (Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:15 pm)
Rating: 6.06%

consumer
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby consumer » Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:45 pm

Dave K wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:35 am
I’ve been riding Duotone since Sept 2019. Originals, then Echo’s, now Slicks. The Duotone boom wings have always had more dihedral than most wave oriented handle wings which typically have very little dihedral (very flat looking from tip to tip). The original’s had a huge amount of dihedral and would “flip” very quickly. That also means they would be very unstable when you tried to luff them holding just the front handle. Of course they weren’t really designed as a luffing wave wing either, rather more of a freestyle riding wing

The Echo’s have reduced dihedral, and the Slicks even more so, but they both still have enough minor dihedral to still make them slightly more “flip” prone than your typical wave riding hand wing. When I luff my Slicks I use one hand on the front of the boom and not on the front handle. Very stable that way and super quick to repower.

One key advantage of dihedral is that it makes the wing “roll over” much easier when you are tacking. Most average wingers are jibing 95% of the time and could care less about tacking efficiency of the wing, or have no idea what that even means. Upwind transitions are more of a freestyle riding attribute. I tack as much as I jibe and really appreciate it. I learned my first toe-to heel and heel to-toe tacks on the original Dutones and the wing would roll over super easy and quickly without any help. With my Slicks (less dihedral) I’ll often need to use my head on toe-to-heel, and my hand on heel-to-toe to get the wing to roll over quickly enough.

Summary; not a design flaw, a design compromise………
I think dihedral from greatest to least is : echo > unit > slick. The slick is a pretty flat wing. That being said I don't understand how dihedral effects the propensity for the wing to flip over. I have noticed that the slick is not as stable when overpowered or fluttering compared to the unit, which is why I prefer the unit over the slick.

Dave K
Frequent Poster
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:49 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Outer Banks
Style: Knee friendly strapless kite/wing foil
Gear: 10 m Airush Ultra / 7M Switch Helium, 5M RRD Passion, 120cm Groove Skate. Duotone Slick SLS 6/5/4/3m, Cabrinha Code 5’0”/78l wing board, Gong Veloce V2 L, XL., XXL, Gong Fluid V2 L, pro Fluid 42cm/freestyle 44 stabilizers, Gong HM 85cm V2 carbon mast, 75cm Al mast. Foil Drive + and 40L slingshot prone foil board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside d

Postby Dave K » Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:43 pm

I’ve never noticed any serious overpowered instability or fluttering and my Slicks don’t flip anything like my original Duotone wings. Maybe dihedral has nothing to do with flipping and I have it all wrong. Thankfully there are many wing choices out there and you’ll find almost as many different opinions as there are wings!

Last session on my 4m Slick a bit overpowered. I consider myself an average Joe rider

These users thanked the author Dave K for the post:
consumer (Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:15 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

airsail
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 687
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:57 am
Weight: 80kg
Local Beach: Queens Beach North, Queensland, Australia
Favorite Beaches: Queens North, I don’t travel much
Style: Foiling
Gear: Sonic 3 15mtr, Soul 10 mtr, BRM Clouds 8, 6.2, 4.8, 3.7
Lift, Naish and Levitaz foils
Carbonco and home build boards
Ozone and Duotone wings
Naish Hover 95 foilboard
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 168 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby airsail » Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:26 pm

I too use the front of the boom when flagging, much quicker to regain power when required.
I’ve often thought that when walking down to the water with your gear the prevalence for flipping was caused by the disturbed airflow over one side of the wing from your body.
It also happens when close hauled, the upper half is in undisturbed airflow, but the lower half is behind your body. Just a theory, probably wrong.

ronnie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4189
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby ronnie » Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:31 am

airsail wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:26 pm
I too use the front of the boom when flagging, much quicker to regain power when required.
I’ve often thought that when walking down to the water with your gear the prevalence for flipping was caused by the disturbed airflow over one side of the wing from your body.
It also happens when close hauled, the upper half is in undisturbed airflow, but the lower half is behind your body. Just a theory, probably wrong.
I agree that when carrying the Slick (and some other wings) downwind of the board to get to the water, the wing tends to tilt to lower the side of the wing that is affected most by airflow over the board, and tends to be the side behind you.

User avatar
jkrug
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:17 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 200 lbs
Gear: stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby jkrug » Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:14 pm

the problem is once i get into the water, and my board is in the water too, the Slick still wants to flip over as I'm trying to get onto my board. same thing after a fall...the Slick flies up in the air off my leash (like most any wing will do) while i'm trying to get back up, but it often flips over while this is happening. that can't be due to airflow issues from my body or board as we're both in the water still.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 12734
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 1007 times
Been thanked: 1187 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:57 pm

jkrug wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:14 pm
the problem is once i get into the water, and my board is in the water too, the Slick still wants to flip over as I'm trying to get onto my board. same thing after a fall...the Slick flies up in the air off my leash (like most any wing will do) while i'm trying to get back up, but it often flips over while this is happening. that can't be due to airflow issues from my body or board as we're both in the water still.

Hmmm, so it is when it is hanging on the leash?

Just curious as to how often this happens - that it is on the leash?

I use a leash yes, although it is just as an extra precaution - I never let go of my wing, always one hand on the boom or front handle when walking out, and I crash quite often.
On occasion in easy conditions, I ride without the leash - so much more freedom.

But you might be onto something - I dont know, but it seems other Slick users dont have an issue?
Or dont wanna admit, if they have :rollgrin:
Seems odd if you are having the wing on its leash often though - quite uncommon IMO, and I think many wings will flip over if so.

8) Peter
These users thanked the author Peter_Frank for the post:
airsail (Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:04 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

User avatar
jkrug
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:17 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 200 lbs
Gear: stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby jkrug » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:16 pm

the wing flies from my leash only after a fall, not when i'm walking around the beach with it where i would hold it from front handle of course. when trying to get back on the board in the water, i use both my hands to stabilize and position myself on the board, and hence, the wing is flying on the leash (which i attach to my wrist). i doubt that is uncommon. what does seem uncommon is how the Slick wants to flip over in that moment.

consumer
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Duotone Slick wants to fly upside down

Postby consumer » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:32 pm

it's common - though I have yet to fly a wing that will not flip on a leash. I agree the slick does it almost instantly when released on a long leash. Whatever wing I'm riding I try to grab slack out of the leash whenever I fall to prevent this from happening.


Return to “Wingsurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Adventure Logs and 37 guests