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First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

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Trent hink
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Re: First wing board size- must it be weight + 40?

Postby Trent hink » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:31 am

Why?

Buoyancy is directly proportional to volume.

Boston kiter wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:36 am
I would think inflatables would have more float than a hard board with the same volume.
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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby BWD » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:45 pm

Buoyancy force = mass of object * gravity (density of fluid/density of object)

So yes, 100 L inflatable, being lighter, is more buoyant than 100 L hard board.
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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby bragnouff » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:31 pm

BWD wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:45 pm
So yes, 100 L inflatable, being lighter, is more buoyant than 100 L hard board.
You assume that an inflatable board is lighter than a hard board, and it's most often the complete opposite.
The skin of those dropstitched boards is super heavy and as a result inflatable boards are typically a good kg heavier than a quality composite board of similar volume.


What is true however, is that a 5'2 inflatable will likely be more buoyant than a 5'2 hard board. Same length, same width, but because of the (lack of) shape of the rails, nose and tail, the inflatable will end up packing more volume than its hard counterpart with its refined lines. So it's likely to be more buoyant, even if a bit heavier, just because it has more volume.

Also keep in mind that buoyancy is only one aspect of stability.
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Re: First wing board size- must it be weight + 40?

Postby Boston kiter » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:29 pm

Trent hink wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:31 am
Why?

Buoyancy is directly proportional to volume.

Boston kiter wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:36 am
I would think inflatables would have more float than a hard board with the same volume.
Like I said "i would think"

I am not an engineer, but isn't it what the volume is made of that matters also??? Air is extremely light, lighter than the materials that would be inside a hard board...That was was my blue collar logic for what it's worth.

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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby Robsw6 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:49 pm

bragnouff wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:31 pm

Also keep in mind that buoyancy is only one aspect of stability.
I had a go on a 5'5 inflatable & hated it, found it very unstable as seemed to react like a cork, my hard board that is slightly longer and about the same volume is way more stable - I think the inflatables suffer from less rail shape also

For me - weight + 27 is perfect for learning
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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby mede » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:22 pm

Make it short and wide - and go for 30+ as a rule.
Enough buoyancy is actually great - gives you a buffer if the wind drops or if you need to paddle back against the wind.
Wide is good, as it's more stable. And short is good, cause it reduces swing weight.
Combine such a board with a long mast (1m) and you get a great beginner package that will be also fun when progressing.

Trent hink
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Re: First wing board size- must it be weight + 40?

Postby Trent hink » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:09 pm

Boston kiter wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:29 pm


Like I said "i would think"

I am not an engineer, but isn't it what the volume is made of that matters also??? Air is extremely light, lighter than the materials that would be inside a hard board...That was was my blue collar logic for what it's worth.
Don't feel bad, it is actually a common mistake.

The material makes no difference, but as others have pointed out, the weight makes a small difference.

The way bouyancy works is the the bouyancy force is exactly equal to the weight of the water displaced.

If you happen to know your weight in kilograms, and understand that the mass of a liter of water is 1 kg, and a bit more than that for saltwater, the volume of a board measured in liters and the weight of the board in kilograms become very useful measurements

If you plus your 100 liter board weigh, for example 100 kg, you can know that your 100 liter board will just barely float with you sitting on top of it (in fresh water) and float slightly better in saltwater.

Saltwater weighs around 1.025 kg/l.

If you plan to stay balanced on top of the board, and not fall off easily, you will probably want some extra volume to help keep the board floating high and more stable as you are flailing around on top of it.

If the volume of the board is more than your weight plus the weight of the board, then where that volume is located makes a difference when you are trying to balance on top of it, as others posting here have mentioned.

You need to use the metric system to make the calculation easy.

Of course all this goes out the window once you are moving fast enough to plane the board, or get the hydrofoil to lift off, which is the reason why "sinker" boards can even work (if, unlike me, you got skills). :D

Hope this helps...
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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby JakeFarley » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:29 pm

I am considering purchasing a wing kit to learn winging (I have no hydrofoil experience). However, what I have heard about board sizing is your weight + 20l. For me at 90kg that would be 110l board. One of the kits I looked at has a board that is 125l and over 6' long. I am hesitant to purchase it as I see here that I would "outgrow" it quickly. Any thoughts/recommendations?

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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby bragnouff » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:06 am

At 90kg, you could get away with a 100-105L, which you would retain for a long time, because those volumes tend to be compact enough. (5'4-5'8)
The difficult part is about climbing on the board, getting on your knees, and grabbing the handles of the wing and starting to move. Once you've got the wing in hands, and with some wind, there is a great assist for balance and for standing up. Once you're moving come different challenges related to foiling, but the size of the board won't be as relevant.

Even on a 125L board, that initial phase will still have some challenges. About a couple of sessions typically, where you'd fall a lot no matter what. Smaller board with about +10 to +15L would make that a bit harder, but not crazily harder. And that can be offset by technique, or with just a few tips (like pushing on the L.E. of the wing on the water for balance, or having the board facing downwind, wing across the nose). Practicing the wing handling on shore, on MTB or skateboard will help a lot. Doing it on a big SUP is also perfectly valid for your first time. Practicing kneeling, marriage proposal and standing up, both sides, at home on the carpet will also help a lot. And finally, the most important factor in your success is the conditions on your spot. You want flat, deep enough, and a good 15kts. And of course a safe spot where nothing catastrophic would happen if you didn't come back upwind (you won't).

So it really depends on your local situation. Can you borrow a SUP, are there other learners to observe or exchange tips with, is there a shop doing introduction days, etc... If you have to figure it out entirely on your own, then maybe owning an oversized board is justified, otherwise it's only for a couple of days that you'd need that, and you could skip it at the expense of a few more falls. Depending on your local market, you could also find a used large board, spend your first sessions on it, and sell it to another beginner, typically without much loss (if at all). Because the market is very active, that is a valid option. But no need to purchase a brand new beginner board, because then you would take a bigger hit on the resale value. "barely used" isn't the same as "brand new". Around here, there's a full kit (Converted 8' 120L SUP, GoFoil Maliko 160, Gong 5m v1), that has been doing the rounds, onto owner #4 now and pretty much keeping its value around the 2000NZD mark. (and it cost me 2200NZD initially when I put all this kit together). Use something like that over a couple of months, or whatever it takes you, and pass it on to the next beginner.
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Re: First wing board size: must it be weight + 40?

Postby juandesooka » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:28 am

I agree with Bragnouff, you'll do fine on your 105L, after having success on your SUP. You'll find it somewhat challenging, but easier as long as wind is decently steady. That's probably a good size for your wife to learn on, though bigger the better on the first day IMHO -- make balancing easy to isolate the variables.

105L is also not unreasonable size for an intermediate board for you. It would take some pretty high performance riding to notice much/any difference between 80L and 105L.

And for the posts in-between...LOL...good old kiteforum.
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