I Blame Windsurfers

[Bille]

...
i understand not liking change...i don't understand not liking change for the better.

Well Said !

Bille

[Peter_Frank]

I find it amazing to read - so many opposite impressions and experiences.

Some find the first gear was easy and low cost and worked, others find it was heavy and expensive and not very good.

Some find the boom "hard" compared to handles, others find it much better.
Some find it started with handles and ended with booms, others find it started with booms and went into handles.

Some find it is mostly windsurfers and some kitesurfers wingfoiling, others it is a lot of new to windsports picking it up.

Some cant understand there is something more fun than kitefoil, others cant understand there can be something more fun than wingfoil

Peter

[mikesids]

Thank god for progress I say !! If we were still stuck with some of those v1 hand wings ( esp the Naish and Slingshot ones, which were frankly horrible ) the sport would never have gotten off the ground.

Now we are in the “ I want more “ phase like what happened in windsurfing and kiting. I want more glide, I want to sail in 8 kts, and also in 40+ kts. I want to hit 30 kts, I want to point higher, I want to jump higher so I can do more rotations etc etc

Some of this is definitely being driven by conditions in the local markets. If you have waves you are going to be more concerned with pump, glide, flagging stability, and carving. If your local spot is a European lake you’ll more likely be concerned with going in light winds , upwind / racing , and jumping / tricking.

It’s all good. Personally I’m very glad ( and lucky) to have waves and swell at my local spots , so there’s no real need for me to get into a course racing arms race. Though I am very happy to see progress with the new materials making wings lighter and more durable .

[OzBungy]

...

Would you fly the Himalayas, with a 1997 , Edel Rainbow ?
OH Hell No ; it's because advancements in technology would
make that a silly decision !

...

True. But I also wouldn't fly the Himalayas with a hang glider. Paragliders have been doing that successfully for almost 20 years. I did a fair bit of it on my trusty EN-B wing.

Paragliding managed to develop massively while always staying true to the essence of paragliding. The manufacturer's association virtually banned any developments that diverged from the spirit of paragliding. You had to be able to roll it up and chuck it in a bag. You had to be able to do all the certification manoeuvres on the wing you bought from the shop.

There were some aberrations like comp wings that had to be rolled in a sausage and carried by two people. The vast majority of wings can be easily folded and put into a bag. People are doing 350km triangles on EN A wings and you can get sub-1kg wings for mountaineering. Run up a hill, and fly off the top.

There were other aberrations such as the "Cage" and full rigid battens and weigh shift speed systems that sought to make paragliders more like hang gliders. They didn't last very long.

What is interesting now is that kite technology is being adapted for paragliding resulting in things like the Moustache https://go-flare.com and people are putting risers on Ozone R1 and going dune soaring.

We digress. Fiddling about with all this stuff is all fine. But it ultimately reduces choice because every manufacturer adopts variations of the same set of features and equipment and materials. You can buy any wing you like as long as you want hard mini-booms and windows and pay the premium for that stuff and buy a van to cart it all around in.

[nothing2seehere]

You can buy any wing you like as long as you want hard mini-booms and windows and pay the premium for that stuff and buy a van to cart it all around in.

This is the odd bit. I remember windsurfing back in the day (had a screamer 2 at the time) with a guy who drove a mazda (eunos) MX5. He could fit all his kit inside and then used to put his wetsuit and harness in the boot. Seems crazy that now without a mast, boom and harness that gear is bigger and will no longer fit inside a small convertible car!

[Bille]

...

Would you fly the Himalayas, with a 1997 , Edel Rainbow ?
OH Hell No ; it's because advancements in technology would
make that a silly decision !

...

True. But I also wouldn't fly the Himalayas with a hang glider. Paragliders have been doing that successfully for almost 20 years. I did a fair bit of it on my trusty EN-B wing.
...

We digress. Fiddling about with all this stuff is all fine. But it ultimately reduces choice because every manufacturer adopts variations of the same set of features and equipment and materials. You can buy any wing you like as long as you want hard mini-booms and windows and pay the premium for that stuff and buy a van to cart it all around in.

That was a Really good presentation ; for the other side of your argument !!

On the Hang Glider flying in the Himalayas :
1990 -- I was contracted to take some rich trekkers , tandem on a HG, down from
the last part of their journey ; everything was set up with equipment and airline
tickets paid for by the agent , and passport was secured ...
Then $H!T happened :
The country went into total utter political Chaos ; the trip advisor said :
"Don't Go" , and that ended the story of a lifetime !!

Bille

[grigorib]

blaming windsurfers is funny - their sport was near death bed with new equipment prices through the roof and older good equipment being given away for free so it doesn’t pile up.

Yet the way guys windsurf on their foils make it look super awesome. Some are very linear but if you watch Greg G. and Tony L. ride in Gorge - it will want one to start windfoiling

[Dontsink]

...

Would you fly the Himalayas, with a 1997 , Edel Rainbow ?
OH Hell No ; it's because advancements in technology would
make that a silly decision !

...

True. But I also wouldn't fly the Himalayas with a hang glider. Paragliders have been doing that successfully for almost 20 years. I did a fair bit of it on my trusty EN-B wing.

Paragliding managed to develop massively while always staying true to the essence of paragliding. The manufacturer's association virtually banned any developments that diverged from the spirit of paragliding. You had to be able to roll it up and chuck it in a bag. You had to be able to do all the certification manoeuvres on the wing you bought from the shop.

There were some aberrations like comp wings that had to be rolled in a sausage and carried by two people. The vast majority of wings can be easily folded and put into a bag. People are doing 350km triangles on EN A wings and you can get sub-1kg wings for mountaineering. Run up a hill, and fly off the top.

There were other aberrations such as the "Cage" and full rigid battens and weigh shift speed systems that sought to make paragliders more like hang gliders. They didn't last very long.

What is interesting now is that kite technology is being adapted for paragliding resulting in things like the Moustache https://go-flare.com and people are putting risers on Ozone R1 and going dune soaring.

We digress. Fiddling about with all this stuff is all fine. But it ultimately reduces choice because every manufacturer adopts variations of the same set of features and equipment and materials. You can buy any wing you like as long as you want hard mini-booms and windows and pay the premium for that stuff and buy a van to cart it all around in.

Paragliding dug it's own rabbit hole with higher aspect,more rigid ,faster (and harder to fly) wings.

Almost every single paraglider pilot i have ever known was flying a wing that was a notch above his abilities to manage it in a mishap...including me

It is human nature, we want more,and more...
At least winging is mostly safe.

[Bille]

...

Paragliding dug it's own rabbit hole with higher aspect,more rigid ,faster (and harder to fly) wings.

Almost every single paraglider pilot i have ever known was flying a wing that was a notch above his abilities to manage it in a mishap...including me

It is human nature, we want more,and more...
At least winging is mostly safe.

That is why I fly Both Paragliders , and Rigid wing Hang gliders !!
Best of Both worlds !!!

Bille

A few months ago :

[ronnie]

This windsurfer has been a one man development machine for wingfoiling, windfoiling and has even started kitefoiling recently with a single skin kite That he uses to take his daughter out in her buggy.




The complaint about a boom increasing the packing dimensions of a wing has an answer.