What size kite and type

[Don Monnot]

I'm pretty new to kites, but I'm a total addict. I bought my first 2-string kite in July of this year, and bought a Revolution 1.5 (4-string stunt kite) a week later. I now am a beginner kiteboarder, and after a couple of lessons have managed to get in a few rides on the water. I'm still struggling with staying upwind on the water.

I also bought a 3.0 Best 2-line kite, and have been having lots of fun with it in 10-20 kt wind. My first day with it was a "gusting to 30" kind of day. Wow. Lots more pull than I expected, but no lift. I added a swiveling chicken loop with a keeper and a snapswivel quick release to the control bar so I now use my seat harness. I'm looking for more pull, more lift, and more depower/control. How big do I go? I read one post that said a 4.0 meter 2-line kite was equivalent to a 6.0 meter 4-line kite in terms of pull. Does the 4-line kite give me lift like my inflatables? I live in Wisconsin, so the tops of the lakes are going to get hard soon, and I'll be heading out on the ice once it's safe. What do you guys recommend? I know of Slingshot, Best, and Cabrinha (HQ Beamer?). Any recommendations there?

Thanks.

Don

[SD]

I infer from your post that you already have your own inflatables for water, if so what size and type? How big are you and what prior ski/snowboard experience do you have? Gravity assisted ski or snowboard experience carrys directly over to snowkiting and you already know how to fly a 4 line kite and stay up on water which is harder than learning on snow.

Lots of folks that kite on snow and water use inflatables for both, there's no reason why you can't.

Foil kites can give plenty of lift, and tend to be more powerful per sq mtr than inflatables, although the state of the art inflatables are pretty close.

The question is do you like kiting enough that you really want to lay down the cash for a separate quiver of snow and water kites?

[mx5alan]

Depends what you want it for... ?

Open foil on handles/bar no depower - then nothing is better than a Flexifoil Blade for lift and power.

Open foil with depower:
Flexifoil Sabre 2 (9.5m for your indicated wind range if around 160lbs or 75kg)
Ozone Frenzy

Water, Land & Snow - Peter Lynn Venom II

[Don Monnot]

I own a 10m, 14m, and 18m Rhino II, and a 12m Switchblade. I weigh about 175 lbs. I grew up skiing (water and snow) and switched to snowboarding about 6 years ago (I'm an old guy--56). I also sail boats (catamarans and keelboats). I started windsurfing 23 years ago, and still windsurf whenever the wind is wrong for kites (offshore on Lake Michigan) or too much for my current skill level. (I was windsurfing last week in 50 kt gusts).

I like flying smaller foil kites on land because it's just fun flying a kite. They're also really easy to set up/pack away, self-launch, etc. For my Best 3.0 I keep the lines attached to the kite and bar. To launch it I just unroll the kite, set my self-launch PVC pipe on top, unwind the lines, put on my harness and launch. Total time is about 3 minutes from arrival to launch. I love the convenience!

What I'm looking for is something in between my 10m Rhino II and my Best 3.0 that would be easy to set up/launch and would work for snow. My snow kiting will be mostly on frozen lakes. Not enough open land nearby to do much with.

I infer from your post that you already have your own inflatables for water, if so what size and type? How big are you and what prior ski/snowboard experience do you have? Gravity assisted ski or snowboard experience carrys directly over to snowkiting and you already know how to fly a 4 line kite and stay up on water which is harder than learning on snow.

Lots of folks that kite on snow and water use inflatables for both, there's no reason why you can't.

Foil kites can give plenty of lift, and tend to be more powerful per sq mtr than inflatables, although the state of the art inflatables are pretty close.

The question is do you like kiting enough that you really want to lay down the cash for a separate quiver of snow and water kites?

[SD]

Don,

Considering your background, your current quiver and what you want to do, I'd go for something in a 7-8m depowerable open cell foil. It wouldn't overlap your current inflatable quiver and would be a great size for starting on snow. As you say the conveinance of setup/takedown and self launch of a foil are a real plus. A stainless steel ice screw run into the ice and a carabiner clipped to the kites brake line make self launching a foil effortless and safe.

The Ozone Frenzy, Slingshot Ranger and Flexifoil Sabre all fit the bill for good depowerable foils and there's probably others I dont know. I fly Ozone Frenzys so I'm biased, but I think Ozone makes the best depowerable snow kite,granted their the most expenisve too. The Frenzy's current 08' size range is 7,9,11 & 13m, 07' and earlier they made 5,7.5,10,12&14m kites. I believe the Slingshot Ranger currently comes only in 9 & 12m. Other than the 9.5m I'm unfamiliar with the Sabre size range.

[Don Monnot]

Thanks for the input, SD.

Don

[steveb]

Don.
Hi...I'm in Wi too but on the other side of the state. For your weight and our typically light winds you should consider a 9 to 13m foil. Our usual winter winds are 10 to 15mph and either of these sizes would work well, it just depends how much air you think you'll want. If jumpings going to be your main goal this season go for the larger sizes, if you want to develop your skills and are not bothered with jumping go for the 9 to 11m.
You'll need to get an ice screw to help with parking and setting up the kite on the hard water. Kevin Gratton at Windpower in Fond du lac would probably be a good contact for you.
I ride for Ozone so I'm biased, but you cannot go wrong with one of their kites for winter, they just work. The new 08's are stellar and going to up the anti as far as performance once again. I have the 15m Manta 2 as my bread and butter Wi kite, but I'm 230lbs.The new center line system and new bridle configuration ,with the new X and Y bridle, are just going to improve the performance of the Frenzy and Manta kites while making them even more user friendly. Other foils are good too as I said I'm biased.

[toyletbowl]

yo don,

where do you live in wisconsin? i'm in madison and have a school and online shop with tons of gear and choices. i'll post my web site below and have a section dedicated to winter riding. some of the info is already outdated even though it's only a year old. things change quite fast in this business for sure.

i agree with steve, that if you can afford, the ozones are some of the best open cells on the market. I also carry foils by flysurfer, ozone, HQ along with LEI, Cabrinha, Slingshot, Eclipse and Ocean Rodeo.

hope this helps and look forward to talking with your further.
bob
608-273-1817
http://www.kiteridersllc.com
bob@kiteridersllc.com

[Noabacca]

Hey, Don,
I'm with you in that, I really like the
Best 2.2~3M foils.

They have a ton of pull for their size,
and the quality/price ratio is pretty dang high
even at retail. Tons of fun.

I wouldn't say that I'm bias, but it is human nature,
this is just another opinion.

I have tried many kites, including
some cheap GFAK 2/3 line foils,
which were complete junk and dangerous,
in addition to the 2001-03-06 Slingshot B series,
in sizes 3-5-8M.
I also got to try the 2006 Ozone 12 and 7.5 Frenzy.

All in all I have been most happy with the fixed 2-line kites
for stability in bad winds. I had more trouble with the
Frenzy 12M in lull/gust filled winds, compared to
my B Series 8M(biggest size made in the SS line of 2-line kites)

Some may swear by depowerable foils, but I found
trying to milk the kites through different trim settings
in gusty wind was more frustrating/fatiguing than just controlling
the power of the 2-line by aggressive flying and stomping, during lulls
and puffs.

Note that none of the B-kites are very good jumpers, unless
you go out over powered, but in the winter, I'm not
that into jumping, since the winds inland where I ride
in Michigan are not very reliable.

Just my experience, the 3M BEST, is tons of
fun on long lines 36M, on hard pack, or
thin amounts of snow on frozen lakes.
The 5M comes in handy when you get a
foot of powder, and the 8M for lighter winds
in most conditions.

I hear there are some good deals still on the
B-series

-NBP