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When is "Big" too big?

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Anthonyshopguy
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Local Beach: Grandmesa CO
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Style: Snow kiting, buggy, water
Gear: 21m Flysurfer Soul, 17m LEI Cabrinha Contra, 15m LEI Slingshot Turbine, 13m Waroo LEI, 11 m foil Frenzy Ozone, 11m Lei Escape PL, 9m Lei Nemesis Best, 7m Lei Waroo, 6m foil apex HQ, 174 SB for the Pow, 169 split SB for the outback, Cabrinha 154 twin tip for the lake, 600 switchback Polaris to get me there, and why not add in a nice new big foot buggy for that once a year buggy blast at Ivanpah.
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When is "Big" too big?

Postby Anthonyshopguy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:13 pm

When is "BIG" too big??????? My backyard ( The Grand Mesa) is a mostly flat level mountain top with light to no wind most days. My first break through was my 15m slingshot. I can control and have a good time with it, in up to 21-22 mph winds at 10500' with me at 100 kilos. But more often than not our winds are under or barely over 10mph. The largest snowboard I've found so far a 174cm has helped but there are still days when I feel I could have had a better session with an even Bigger kite. So I purchased a 17m Contra. Sadly It has proven to not be much or any improvement on my 15m. So how big is too big. I got a chance to fly a 21m Flysurfer this spring in the Baltic sea. Winds very steady at 13 to 15 mph decreasing gradually throughout the day. Lack of Power was not a problem. In fact I've never been this powered before. A simple turn in the window creating enough power to physically lift me out of the water. No board action at all. I think such a kite may result in me never ever having a missed day again. But on the other side of the coin I'm in Colorado, In the Mountains there is no such thing as a steady wind. Gusts are the norm and even though they are typically within my capability to handle on the 15m I worry about such a big kite. I would invite all suggestions and opinions. Needless to say the flysurfer would be by far my biggest investment to date and I really don't want a kite I would be unable or afraid to use. :?:

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edt
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby edt » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:02 pm

Keep your kite low that's how you keep from getting lofted. I dunno if you want a 21m flysurfer tho, it's a great kite, but if it's too gusty it will taco and bow tie. I would say go for it, and if it doesn't work, just resell the kite, and stay with the Contra.

Anthonyshopguy
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Posts: 120
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 4:07 pm
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Grandmesa CO
Favorite Beaches: Lake Arena CR, Cocoa Beach FL, Ivanpah CA, Lake Meredith Tx, lake Huron Mi, Metro Park MI ** 6 Mile on lake Mohave NV.
Style: Snow kiting, buggy, water
Gear: 21m Flysurfer Soul, 17m LEI Cabrinha Contra, 15m LEI Slingshot Turbine, 13m Waroo LEI, 11 m foil Frenzy Ozone, 11m Lei Escape PL, 9m Lei Nemesis Best, 7m Lei Waroo, 6m foil apex HQ, 174 SB for the Pow, 169 split SB for the outback, Cabrinha 154 twin tip for the lake, 600 switchback Polaris to get me there, and why not add in a nice new big foot buggy for that once a year buggy blast at Ivanpah.
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby Anthonyshopguy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:37 pm

Thanks for the thoughts edt. And of course duh on me, keeping it low would be a simple precaution though not one I have had to use very often. In fact only once, in a beyond unusual gust.

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Slappysan
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby Slappysan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:03 am

Here's the question, do you want to soar? If you do you'll get loads of good times out of a big ram air kite (I would go with the flysurfer Soul 15/18/21 myself)

Now if you just want to ride around with a bit of jumping, but no serious air time then you can get a flysurfer Peak 4 8m or 11m at 1/3 of the cost and not having to worry too much about getting lofted by the kite accidentally.

RedSky
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby RedSky » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:06 am

Ivanpah, its superb yes? I was there in 2011. Your local conditions sound just like my local inland site. Spent the last 21 years battling against on/off low wind. The best type of kite i found is an LEI as they hold their shape. Bigger = heavier though. A 13m gave me a good balance between power and control. Have you tried double length lines? You generate a lot more torque while hitting cleaner faster moving air.

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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby joriws » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:15 am

15m Flysurfer is enough for everybody recreational riding.. That's my statement with previously also owning 21m Speed3 (also visible on first linked video) and being heavy-class rider. 15m Flysurfer foil kite will blow your LEIs away in terms of power winter and summer. And if foil kite bow ties - don't worry, your LEI did hindenburg a while ago already.

For edt, here at 01:00 you can see how North's Dyno 18m (and in general LEI) can cope turbulent low winds where my Speed3-15 at that time backstalled and re-gained flight with front line pulls. Dyno hindenburging all the time - I rode he did not and wind was around 2-3m/s (4-6kn)..





And how well foil kites behave in zero to 2m/s wind. Open-cell Ozone Frenzy 5m could not fly but closed cell Flysurfers no problem. Sure you need some skill to repeat - but you can build that skill..



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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby matthepp » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:59 pm

Here we go again with all the foil light wind BS (respectfully, in my opinion). A lot has to do with the thing attached to the BOTTOM end of the lines (the pilot). I never have an issue hindenburging my heavy LEI. I see lots of foils laying in piles as I go by.
No doubt Speeds, etc are amazing when it's a nice steady 7knots gusting to 8 on flat ice.

Anthonyshopguy
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Posts: 120
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 4:07 pm
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Grandmesa CO
Favorite Beaches: Lake Arena CR, Cocoa Beach FL, Ivanpah CA, Lake Meredith Tx, lake Huron Mi, Metro Park MI ** 6 Mile on lake Mohave NV.
Style: Snow kiting, buggy, water
Gear: 21m Flysurfer Soul, 17m LEI Cabrinha Contra, 15m LEI Slingshot Turbine, 13m Waroo LEI, 11 m foil Frenzy Ozone, 11m Lei Escape PL, 9m Lei Nemesis Best, 7m Lei Waroo, 6m foil apex HQ, 174 SB for the Pow, 169 split SB for the outback, Cabrinha 154 twin tip for the lake, 600 switchback Polaris to get me there, and why not add in a nice new big foot buggy for that once a year buggy blast at Ivanpah.
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby Anthonyshopguy » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:21 pm

Thanks for the input joriws, 15m speed 3. By the way great shots pulling the kids around. And yes, it seems to have lots of lift. Question, what altitude was this shot at? My typical spot is at 3200m. So air density is an issue. Oh and joriws the window video was a complete cheat :-? ,though very cool, with zero friction I probably could get a trash can to fly if I can skate fast enough. :D And Matt Totally respect your opinion. But how much bigger than that 17 contra can I get in an lei. It was disappointing in light winds. When I was at the Baltic I started the day on a 17m lei as the wind died down I ended on the 21 speed 4 still silly overpowered. My only other large foil experience was on my old 13m Ranger when I was first learning. Its power freaked me out at that time. Now of course I wish I still had it. Serg, are you out there, do you want to sell it back to me :D . So thinking a large foil maybe not a 21 but somewhere between 15m and 21m. The 11m peak 4 seems very different and I love the fact that it at least seems to be pretty structurally sound ( can take a beating ). What I cannot find is any info on what kind of lift it provides for heavier people, how does it compare to a say 15m lei for power. And why does the 4m have such a silly wind window 4-38 knots, and the 11m only 3 to 15 knots. Chris HQ, if your out there, how about some input on the Zeekai. And last RedSky. IBX is first week of April this year. I will be at Ivanpah again. Such great people and so much fun. As for line length I'm flying at 30m now and kite response is getting pretty sluggish. I cannot imagine 60m lines, that is almost 2/3 the length of a football field (american). :naughty:

kitexpert
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby kitexpert » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:17 pm

joriws wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:15 am
15m Flysurfer foil kite will blow your LEIs away in terms of power winter and summer.
Power is problem only if wind is very low. When snowkiting power or kite size are not very relevant unless you are not racing or surface is soft or sticky. Jumping with big foil kites in low winds is quite pathetic, you get perhaps 5 to 10 feet of air at best. Difference between Speed 15 and 17m LEI is there but it is not very big. 17m LEI is faster than 12m Speed, some 9m foil kites are slower to turn than a 17m LEI.
joriws wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:15 am
And if foil kite bow ties - don't worry, your LEI did hindenburg a while ago already.
Modern LEI's don't hindenburg so often. When snowkiting it is easy to fly kite and as long as it is moving it doesn't hindenburg. Problem is much more apparent when foiling. I once dropped my kite so that it overflied and ended up straight upwind from me (or at least which was upwind :) ). It was amazing, my kite was completely on wrong side, LE down against the wind, lines almost straight :o :lol:

Anthonyshopguy
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Posts: 120
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 4:07 pm
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Grandmesa CO
Favorite Beaches: Lake Arena CR, Cocoa Beach FL, Ivanpah CA, Lake Meredith Tx, lake Huron Mi, Metro Park MI ** 6 Mile on lake Mohave NV.
Style: Snow kiting, buggy, water
Gear: 21m Flysurfer Soul, 17m LEI Cabrinha Contra, 15m LEI Slingshot Turbine, 13m Waroo LEI, 11 m foil Frenzy Ozone, 11m Lei Escape PL, 9m Lei Nemesis Best, 7m Lei Waroo, 6m foil apex HQ, 174 SB for the Pow, 169 split SB for the outback, Cabrinha 154 twin tip for the lake, 600 switchback Polaris to get me there, and why not add in a nice new big foot buggy for that once a year buggy blast at Ivanpah.
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Re: When is "Big" too big?

Postby Anthonyshopguy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:03 am

Funny Kitexpert almost the same thing happened at my last snow kite session. I just stared not believing it had parked so perfectly. Maybe sticky snow was the last problem, sure it can be fast sometimes.


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