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climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

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prop_joe
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby prop_joe » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:11 pm

Pemba wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm
A bit too political for me all that.. Left = evil, right = good ?
to expand a bit further... Far left = insane, left = evil, right = slightly less evil, far right = dumb. :lol: Hows that?

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:58 am

Pemba wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm
I think we're misunderstanding each other. My point was even without considering rising CO2 levels, a rising global population is a big (environmental) problem I think. This in response to your: "a population increase is not environmentally devastating in a warming climate where food is available"
There is virtually no question that when most of the world's population is starving, all environmental initiatives will be ignored. A starving population will strip the land of all of its available resources, including common and even endangered species, for its own survival.

The Doomsday scenario is not in warming, but rather in cooling. Nothing a well fed humanity does to the environment is of significance in comparison to what a desperate and starving humanity is capable of.



Pemba wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm
I believe you have stated that you don't believe that people are responsible for global warming or capable of changing the trend. So I don't understand the concern for global cooling as a result of humans trying to reduce CO2. I'd prefer for it to stay around the present temperature. One year up, the next year down sort of thing. Off course long term this is unlikely. But I think present population increase is unsustainable in the long run anyway.
What you or I believe is relatively unimportant. But policy decisions based on falsified data tend to lead to bigger problems. And I don't think your preference or vote is even considered with regards to the climate which you were born into.

Global cooling is a concern regardless of any cause, natural, man-made, or man-made while trying to undo an unknown or falsified man made effect.

But my main concern is that we are chasing our tails on something that is actually beneficial, but we are making it seem like a problem. But no matter what, at some point in this Earth's history, the climate will cool. We can make sure that we are prepared for that real disaster by having a naturally or planned lower population on the Earth to support with less resources.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:03 am

prop_joe wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:11 pm
Pemba wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm
A bit too political for me all that.. Left = evil, right = good ?
to expand a bit further... Far left = insane, left = evil, right = slightly less evil, far right = dumb. :lol: Hows that?
Both left and right have their strengths and weaknesses. The left is both passionate and stupid. The right is logical and lacks passion.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby prop_joe » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:42 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:03 am
prop_joe wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:11 pm
Pemba wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm
A bit too political for me all that.. Left = evil, right = good ?
to expand a bit further... Far left = insane, left = evil, right = slightly less evil, far right = dumb. :lol: Hows that?
Both left and right have their strengths and weaknesses. The left is both passionate and stupid. The right is logical and lacks passion.
I think you mean 'lacks compassion'. You can't tell me the Donald lacks passion... what exactly for though i'm not entirely sure :lol:

The biggest weakness for me from the left is the inability to handle criticism/scrutiny... not only can they not seem to cope with it it somehow it tends to get turned around and used against you, some kind of defense into attack tactic, we've seen countless examples in this thread.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:54 pm

prop_joe wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:42 pm
I think you mean 'lacks compassion'. You can't tell me the Donald lacks passion... what exactly for though i'm not entirely sure :lol:
Many people think of left vs right on a straight line. The reality, or more fitting shape, would be a circle. Take that left vs right line and bend it up where left and right are touching at the top, and the middle is at the bottom.

This is a much better explanation of why you have such extremism in the supposedly opposite views. It also explains why it is often times very difficult to discern far left from far right.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby SimonP » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:50 pm

This is a crazy discussion, the climate isn't political, it's a physical system that responds to well-understood inputs.
Two of the three most recent mass extinction events were due to runaway greenhouse gas warming, the end-Triassic and the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum.
Most of our staple foods require a cooler climate, rice being the main exception.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:58 pm

SimonP wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:50 pm
This is a crazy discussion, the climate isn't political, it's a physical system that responds to well-understood inputs.
The standard for understanding something is being able to make future predictions accurately. Climatology is very much a field of study in its infancy where we are not even sure of all of the variables affecting it. And even recent predictions have fallen flat on their face.

And yes climate is very much a political topic. Compare it to particle physics or astronomy, and you will find that this is absolutely true. And in those two other disciplines, it is hard to even distinguish sides. And even if you can, it is almost unheard of to rig data or models for a political reason. Both sides on the climate debate are guilty of more data and model rigging then almost all other disciplines combined. And the amount of things that are just straight made up out of lack of understanding, is pretty laughable to. Very much a political issue.



SimonP wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:50 pm
Most of our staple foods require a cooler climate, rice being the main exception.
There is no debate that in a cooling climate all agricultural production suffers. Plants grow slower in cooler climates. Cooler climates have less average rainfall. Most plants that grow at Northern latitudes can be grown at latitudes closer to the Equator. Very few plants that grow at the equator can be grown at Northern latitudes.

Your above statement is the most misleading thing I believe I've ever seen in this forum, or on any other.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby SimonP » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:29 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:58 pm
The standard for understanding something is being able to make future predictions accurately. Climatology is very much a field of study in its infancy where we are not even sure of all of the variables affecting it. And even recent predictions have fallen flat on their face.
False. The key drivers of climate have been well understood since the late 1800s. The body of scientific literature is huge, but ultimately depend upon the Stefan-Boltzmann Law, Clausius-Clapeyron equation, and the Navier-Stokes equations of fluid motion. Solving these partial differential equations require computing power only accessible in the last 30 years. Climate models do very well, but they can not predict in advance future greenhouse gas emissions, volcanic eruptions, or periodic events such as ENSO.
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:58 pm
There is no debate that in a cooling climate all agricultural production suffers. Plants grow slower in cooler climates. Cooler climates have less average rainfall.
Totally irrelevant as the climate will not cool until the volume of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere reduce. Excessive warming can have detrimental effects as well, just ask our friends in the Pacific North West.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby palmbeacher » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:07 am

Trump on climate change:

“It’ll start getting cooler. You just watch.”

“I don’t think science knows, actually.”

🙄

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby slide » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:41 am

yea , i glad you put that up as i was just going to do it, and joe biden calling him a climate arsonist , with joe biden grooming up many new green jobs and thinking green - we got to the point many years ago that we knew this but those who love power and greed kept denying it and hoped it would go away , but it hasn't and just this week BBC reporting huge tunnels under the artic that go down 800 metres that are letting warmer water in and making the melting so much worse and scientists who worked this out are saying waters rising much quicker than we thought and trump has his head in the sand blaming forest management for the devistation in california and everyone who understands about this and has taken the time to look has said it will get worse , 54 degrees recorded in death valley ,more heat more drought,less stable weather will effect us in many way , drought ridden crops , less food , when all we need is better forest management :lol:


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