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climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

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Matteo V
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:35 pm

Pemba wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:29 pm
By the way, are you writing enviormental on purpose ?
The positive consequences of actions should be considered only when they outweigh the negative consequences of those actions. In this case, if you want to consider any future environmentalism as being good, then this is not something we should enjoy. The payment for this will be much greater then any benefit we're receiving now.

And yes, I do consider myself concerned with the environment. But environmentalists track record, especially in the last 50 to 70 years, is pretty much 100% making things worse overall.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby kiteykitekite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 pm

There have been some good environmental actions, cfc bans for example. Overall though economic expansionism has outweighed any and all environmental advance. Movement to "green" tech like electric cars etc will too continue to be outweighed by economic expansionism. Economic expansionism will continue till most species on the planet are extinct, unless we move off planet, or come to some other solution, a virus.....would be great to reset the clock a bit, would need to kill of at least half of the people to make any substantial difference though, they will just breed back in 20 years. Maybe a virus that kills a few percent, but drives the world leaders to collapse the global economy in fear, which starts world war 3 and depopulates 90%. That would probably reset the clock for a good few 100 years. Looking at Chernobyl, heavily irradiated areas could remain unpopulated for much longer. Maybe the solution is to just dump nuclear waste over everything :lol: Pollute to prevent pollution. Sounds like something slide would support. The problem is the general population is like slide. #democracyisfucked
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:37 pm

Fred Singer 1924 - 2020


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SimonP
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby SimonP » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:16 am

‘A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.’ - Max Plank

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby kiteykitekite » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:50 am

That helps explain my disagreements with kitexpert.

It is also true the young are the most easy to indoctrinate. We are literally born gullible and trusting. It is why ideologies put so much importance on the young. I would also say much of our education is actually indoctrination. We should grow and our ability to break free from indoctrination increase, but that ability varies in the population. The problem is our higher institutions of "education" that should challenge paradigms, have instead slowly come to be largely occupied by those that only accept them,and even more scary accept those of their own making detached from reality.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Pemba » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:10 am

kiteykitekite wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:50 am
That helps explain my disagreements with kitexpert.

It is also true the young are the most easy to indoctrinate. We are literally born gullible and trusting. It is why ideologies put so much importance on the young. I would also say much of our education is actually indoctrination. We should grow and our ability to break free from indoctrination increase, but that ability varies in the population. The problem is our higher institutions of "education" that should challenge paradigms, have instead slowly come to be largely occupied by those that only accept them,and even more scary accept those of their own making detached from reality.
The young are probably the easiest to indoctrinate but they are also the ones that can admit and learn from mistakes - evolve their thinking. The old are often stuck on some idea. Few people are able to admit mistakes, especially old people.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Havre » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:53 am

How do you know if you are indoctrinated or not? Are you indoctrinated to think that you are not? Seems unsolvable to me.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby SaulOhio » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:54 pm

Havre wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:53 am
How do you know if you are indoctrinated or not? Are you indoctrinated to think that you are not? Seems unsolvable to me.
Watch the reaction of the people who believe the doctrine when you question it. If they automatically attack your character or that of the people who present countering evidence, then its likely they are indoctrinated, and your belief may be purely indoctrination. The same if they keep repeating the same bad kinds of arguments, despite your explaining why that kind of argument is unconvincing, its indoctrination. There was someone on this thread who kept posting news events of bad weather, often directed at me. I told him time and again that I needed data, not anecdotes. bad weather has always been happening.

In short, you find out if you have been indoctrinated by examining the ideas you believe. Listen to the people who don't agree with the idea. Present their criticisms of the idea to others who believe it. Watch their reaction. If they respond with reasoned arguments and evidence, it may be a valid belief. Its no guarantee that it is right, but it does mean people are open to other ideas. If they scream at you and use logical fallacies as rhetorical weapons, its just indoctrination.

Question it. See what happens.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:27 pm

SaulOhio wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:54 pm
Havre wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:53 am
How do you know if you are indoctrinated or not? Are you indoctrinated to think that you are not? Seems unsolvable to me.
Watch the reaction of the people who believe the doctrine when you question it.
Oh come on now, thats now how its done you have to question it with such sarcasm, derision and intentionally inflammatory language that you elicit the emotional response your fishing for. Then pronounce them indoctrinated.
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Pemba
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Pemba » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:12 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:27 pm
SaulOhio wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:54 pm
Havre wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:53 am
How do you know if you are indoctrinated or not? Are you indoctrinated to think that you are not? Seems unsolvable to me.
Watch the reaction of the people who believe the doctrine when you question it.
Oh come on now, thats now how its done you have to question it with such sarcasm, derision and intentionally inflammatory language that you elicit the emotional response your fishing for. Then pronounce them indoctrinated.
Simplifying indoctrination: you're indoctrinated if you react in a rude way to being questioned ? Sarcasm, derision and intentionally inflammatory language kind of appears to fall under that so would be practised by indoctrinated people ? For many things you can't know if you're indoctrinated to a point. I think you have to be open minded and accept the possibility. For instance in the "west" we have a number of negative ideas about what goes on in Russia, China etc (and I expect vice versa). If you haven't been there how do you know what's true ? Because the Western Press and Governments report things exactly the way they are ? I don't think so.


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