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climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

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Havre
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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:51 pm

marlboroughman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:32 pm
Havre wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:36 am

What kind of way of communication is this?

Foilholio presents data. Strekke makes his/hers assessment of the sources. You might agree/disagree with that assessment, but at least he/she isn't a complete !%"%!" writing the reply to foilholio.

What if Strekke now is to reply to you in the same manner? How long do you think it takes before it becomes purely an exchange of insults between the two of you?
Zero tolerance for ad hominem attacks. You bring shit like this, you better have something. I am waiting, and don't forget your sources.
So two wrongs makes one right then? I mean considering your style of posting would never include any ad hominem attacks yourself? Or is this some crusade defending the honour of someone that would never read any posts on this board? And that makes it acceptable to reply to Strekke in such a manner?

Not sure what sources you are looking for. Sources that your style of communication is rather poor if you want to have a fruitful discussion?

All rhetorical of course. I didn't want Strekke to spend energy replying to these kind of posts and I don't want this thread to become a discussion about my views on your posting style.

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marlboroughman
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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:46 pm

Anthony Watts is leading a voluntary effort to do the simplest thing the government with all the billions wasted on climate couldn't. Let that sink in.

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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Strekke » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:04 pm

marlboroughman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:46 pm
Anthony Watts is leading a voluntary effort to do the simplest thing the government with all the billions wasted on climate couldn't. Let that sink in.
Thanks for calling me out and prompting me to dig deeper. I actually found some very interesting stuff!

Anthony Watts receives money from the Heartland Institute. In leaked documents of this organization, one can read:
“We have also pledged to help raise around $90,000 in 2012 for Anthony Watts to help him create a new website to track temperature station data.”
So this institute has helped set up Watt's surface temperature tracking website, so what? It matters because:

The Heartland Institute is a Chicago-based free market think tank and 501(c)(3) charity that has been at the forefront of denying the scientific evidence for man-made climate change. The Heartland Institute has received at least $676,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998 but no longer discloses its funding sources.
Additional fun fact: since 1998 they have been receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a major "anonymous donor". :alarm:

More info and original leaked documents at https://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-in ... al-machine
Source with actual pdf's from Exxon Mobile confirming their donations for you to view: https://research.greenpeaceusa.org/?a=view&d=4385

In any case, their little surface temperature tracking experiment apparently had already kinda backfired in 2009/2010:

In March 2009 The Heartland Institute published an illustrated report authored by Watts, in which he argued that the surface temperature record in the United States was inaccurate and that the actual temperature was lower than reported. Watts presented pictures from volunteers participating through his website to show that many surface weather stations were situated near artificial heat sources such as pavement and air conditioners, but did not show any comparison of the data from these sites and the data from well situated stations. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) investigated the matter. While acknowledging the suboptimal conditions of many stations, NOAA concluded in 2010 that any bias had been nearly eliminated by their models, which compared stations over regions and time. To the very limited extent that there was any measurement bias, it was in the opposite direction of what Watts expected: stations that were considered poorly situated reported slightly cooler temperatures.

:remybussi:

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marlboroughman
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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:55 pm

Some very fine sources you've got, no wonder your brain is fried. Better founded than modest Anthony for sure.

DeSmogBlog founder Lefebvre is a lawyer, internet entrepreneur and past-president of online transaction company NETeller.[13] He gave $300,000 to help start DeSmogBlog, as well as donations to the David Suzuki Foundation and Dalai Lama Center for Peace and Education.[14]

In 2007, Lefebvre pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge related to handling billions of dollars in illegal gambling proceeds through his company, NETeller.[15] He was sentenced to 45 days in prison, one year of supervised release, fined $750,000 and ordered to pay a $40 million forfeiture obligation.[16]

https://www.influencewatch.org/organization/desmogblog/

Heartland does fantastic job and you haven't scratched the surface of climate. You don't even read kiteforum. :rollgrin:
Last edited by marlboroughman on Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:05 pm

Does that mean that the leaked documents are false?

I mean if Dick Cheney leaked a document stating that puppies are cute I would still accept the information in the document - regardless of the questionable ethical nature of the source leaking them.

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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:09 pm

They stole the documents and what? Anthony got $90 000 to set up a web site for cataloguing all US meteo stations. Do something useful with your life, maybe you will get paid.

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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:22 pm

Funny how you can´t write a single post without adding an insult to it. Kind of cute. Like a Dick Cheney-style puppy would be.

It doesn´t necessarily have to mean anything. I can see a situation where someone just wants to do research and have to accept money from sources they rather now want to be associated with - out of desperation. But I don´t think someone´s brain is fried just because they have then questioned him and his objectivity. Would Heartland continue to support him if the results proved unhelpful to Heartland? Probably. Which clearly would be problematic to anyones integrity.

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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Strekke » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:32 pm

Nice counter-investigation MM. But what happened to the pro-Watts argument from a few posts back "he's just running the blog that doesn't mean the information isn't true"? It doesn't apply to this case now? Sounds like "Marxism" to me! In any case, as Havre points out, the leaked documents are there. And it does matter that Anthony Watts received 90k from an Exxon funded organization - it's called lobbying. But you also diss the DeSmogBlog itself. Let's do some research and compare it to the "whatsupwiththat?" blog, shall we?

Credibility check through https://mediabiasfactcheck.com:
Desmogblog: classified as left biased, with factual reporting high
WUWT: classified as conspiracy/pseudo-sciene, factual reporting low

Awards:
Desmogblog: ""best blogs of 2011" by Time Magazine; three British Columbia chapters of the Canadian Public Relations Society, the Vancouver, Victoria (CPRS-vi) and Northern Lights in Prince George, with an award for demonstrating "The highest ethical and professional standards while performing outstanding work"
WUWT: It is among the most prominent climate change denial blogs, no awards

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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby prop_joe » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:34 am

Anyone else find it funny/ironic/weird that what this thread essentially boils down to... is a group of people going 'Arrrrrrrgh we're gonna die!' and two of them saying 'calm down everyone, it's gonna be fine' and those are the two taking most of the sh*t :lol: What other scenario does this happen? I'm well aware it's much more nuanced than that and they have brought it on themselves but i just thought i'd point that out :D If it is all totally legit the various Govs must be loving it because they get to play out all their fear mongering tactics and games without getting called on it! FF... your got a spare shiny hat mate? :lol: :lol: :lol:

ps - working my way through GH and RD on JRE. Had never even heard of Gobegli Tepi before, very interesting. :thumb:
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foilholio (Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:40 am)
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foilholio
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Re: climate change /unpredictable weather/wind

Postby foilholio » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:40 am

prop_joe wrote:you got a spare shiny hat mate?
Here you go, better protect those brain cells of yours, because they are clearly functioning!


Oh that website is a joke. Left MSM sites get a Strong factual rating, Right Mixed. Wikileaks, perhaps the most factual media source in history, MIXED. The left/right bar is hilarious, why does a site need something like that? Anything that is counter mainstream, PSEUDO SCIENCE. Honestly it is a website about adhominem.

Time magazine? Didn't they praise Hitler? See where this goes. Making logical fallacies should not allow you to be swayed. Play the ball not the player. The deep state is an expert in playing the player. See that recent assassination job? That's the ultimate playing the player. Instead of addressing why it is Iraq is siding with Iran, they go after the players. Same thing with wikileaks, go after Julian Assange. Try to discredit him with fake sex allegations and if that doesn't work either kill him or lock him in prison and torture.


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