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Wings work on snow?

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BOEMIX
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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby BOEMIX » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:03 pm

But to be honest there are a lot of days with a lot of shit to be eat 😆

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby tomtom » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:41 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:44 pm
LOL oh okay then. SMH.


Been told a lot of things can't over the years. Most of those people never actually tried any of it ot lacked the skill or nerve to do so.

Most of them were wrong.

We'll just have to wait and see.
I have windwing /cabrinha/ had kitewing and used them together with kites both water and snow from 2000.
What is hard to comprehend about that you cannot miraculously harness as much power from 4m wing without wind window as from 12m kite?
How many times did you actually kite with 4m kite in deep snow? BTW i did but you can loop kite and you have power stroke to break initial resistance. I was never able to windwing in deepsnow. And bigger than 5m wing it just not practical.

On side note
I love wings just not in pow.

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby Matteo V » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:18 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:41 pm
What is hard to comprehend about that you cannot miraculously harness as much power from 4m wing without wind window as from 12m kite?
How many times did you actually kite with 4m kite in deep snow? BTW i did but you can loop kite and you have power stroke to break initial resistance. I was never able to windwing in deepsnow. And bigger than 5m wing it just not practical.
12m kite has a projected area of around 7.5m. Every kiter that has messed around with different line legnths has some understanding of the wind window.

So why do you like the wing? Just because it is different? Or do you feel it is actually better in some way?

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Hardwater Kiter
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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:57 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:41 pm
Hardwater Kiter wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:44 pm
LOL oh okay then. SMH.


Been told a lot of things can't over the years. Most of those people never actually tried any of it ot lacked the skill or nerve to do so.

Most of them were wrong.

We'll just have to wait and see.
I have windwing /cabrinha/ had kitewing and used them together with kites both water and snow from 2000.
What is hard to comprehend about that you cannot miraculously harness as much power from 4m wing without wind window as from 12m kite?
How many times did you actually kite with 4m kite in deep snow? BTW i did but you can loop kite and you have power stroke to break initial resistance. I was never able to windwing in deepsnow. And bigger than 5m wing it just not practical.

On side note
I love wings just not in pow.
Okay so basically what you are saying is that YOU have been unsuccessful with playing around in deep snow with a wing sail. The classic "I can't do it so it can't be done" position. What were the variables in your attempts? What skis were you on? what were the dimensions? what was the wax temp? did you get a head start on an incline or start from a flat dead stop? Was was the wind range and what size wing? How diligent were you with it?

Did you not read my post? I clearly state that I have not had the wing sails in deep pow yet. This is all theory and opinion at this point but I'm willing to explore the potential. If I have skis that allow enough float for me to skin or semi-skate in deep snow, there is no reason why a wing couldn't power me.

I have a bit of experience on snow and I feel that there is some value with these new inflato wings that rigid frames like Kitewings don't offer. If you can get it moving there is nothing in deep snow that makes it any less viable than a kite as a means to play in the wind. Just different. Like a kite, it's an engine to be applied to whatever you wish and somethings are better than others. Some limitations are obvious such as buggying, a wingsail may not be the best engine. ;-) But other things warrant exploration.

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby tomtom » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:21 pm

What other than my experience and my opinion on subject can I provide?
Good luck with pow winging - let as know about set and settings that work for you.

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:22 pm

BOEMIX wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:28 am
Nice video Hardwaterkiting!

I think wings can't replace kites in light wind for example, but sometimes they can save your session, like in dense fog where you can't actually see where your kite is (my yesterday snowkite session :cry: ).

I think every piece of gear that can save you a kite session after a 3 hour drive is very valuable!
Thanks!

And I absolutely agree.

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby tomtom » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:29 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:18 pm
tomtom wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:41 pm
What is hard to comprehend about that you cannot miraculously harness as much power from 4m wing without wind window as from 12m kite?
How many times did you actually kite with 4m kite in deep snow? BTW i did but you can loop kite and you have power stroke to break initial resistance. I was never able to windwing in deepsnow. And bigger than 5m wing it just not practical.
12m kite has a projected area of around 7.5m. Every kiter that has messed around with different line legnths has some understanding of the wind window.

So why do you like the wing? Just because it is different? Or do you feel it is actually better in some way?
As as say before wings work very well in low power enviroment - Hydrofoil, ice, fast hard snow, or concrete /sk8/
IMO wing doesnt work in power hungry enviroment - pow, twintip, uphill...

Why i choose wing on ice or sk8? Because it is just better tool for the job. Less power spikes - less things to worry about /line slack etc./ And in high wind just more user friendly. Gusty wind and turbolences are much less issue. And its fun :)

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby squambat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Kitewings are great in big wind conditions that could be dangerous on a kite. I have been sailing Kitwings for 8 years in all kind of conditions.

The newer high aspect ratio designs (3.0, 4.6 and 6.0) are great on smooth ice with more lift and less drag. 3.0 is a great wing for 30-45 knot wind and is super fast on smooth ice. 4.6 is a great size, faster than a 5.5 in most conditions and sails on apparent wind behind islands. The downside of high AR wings is they are less stable and in snow they can catch a tip and drag you down. The wing tip bounces off the ice and you learn to pull the wing out of the dive quickly. You can let it fly horizontally when overpowered and put all of your weight in the harness.

The 5.5 and 7.0 are better for snow conditions with good stability and great for jumping. The 7.0 is an advanced Kitewing - it takes time to master the handling so you don't crash and break the carbon frame. I started kiting this winter on an F-One Halo 8m kite and kites are more fun in the right conditions - steady medium wind and good surface. I still have a lot to learn about kiting in big wind and for me it is safer to use a Kitewing than to be overpowered on a kite. This video is me sailing the 7.0 in 15-30 knot wind in powder drifts 8" deep on Fischer 108 powder skis.


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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:28 pm

In 15-20kn with kite you can boost decent 20ft jumps on snow, and if you have optimal surface (and more wind) more. If you want to go fast kite wins again and if you want to cover some distance it isn't even worth asking. I tried a wing some time ago and it was quite lame: slow moving, bad upwind, 0 jumping. For arms wing is quite tiring but it was perhaps the most noteworthy thing in it, only thing which felt something. Ok, more positive wing things are simplicity and how easy it is to have a break.

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Re: Wings work on snow?

Postby squambat » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:05 am

I have sailed a Kitewing over 100 miles in a day 7 times and hit an average speed of 25.8 mph on the 4.6 this year. Last year I did 2,400 miles in 53 days, so you can go pretty far. They are better than kites for touring behind islands and excel at big wind. If you are a very experienced kiter, then you would prefer kiting when the conditions are good. I am not saying Kitewing is better than a kite, just different with pros and cons.

Kitewings are more forgiving, have great depower and as you said are easy to put down to take a break to chat with friends. If you use a harness then your arms do not get tired at all, and you can hang all of your weight on the kitewing. They go well upwind and you can jump but not 20 feet high.

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