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chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

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RomeUtah
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chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby RomeUtah » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:04 pm

Considering either Chrono or sould for snow and snow kiting specifically. the Chrono, I have found to be about 100 cheaper. Anyone have experience with both and do you lean towards one or the other?

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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby dave1986 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:24 pm

Plenty of opinions about the Soul vs Chrono V3 can be read in this forum at the following link :
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2400172&start=90

I own a 13m Chrono V3 in the Ultralight fabric. I find it phenomenal for low winds as well as being extremely stable in offshore gusty conditions too. I haven't used it specifically for snow kiting, but it's a very well behaved kite which I would happily use for snow kiting if the opportunity arises.
The Chrono can be bought in "Ultralight" fabric or "Standard" fabric. The "Ultralight" fabric of the Chrono is lighter than the Soul, and will fly in slightly lower winds. The standard fabric Chrono is slightly heavier than the Soul.

There are plenty of people who will claim that one kite is better than the other but I've yet to find anyone who has flown both kites back-to-back. But one thing I'm sure is that they're both awesome kites!

Here are the kite weights for comparison:

13m Ozone Chrono V3 Ultralight fabric= 2.19kg
13m Ozone Chrono V3 Standard fabric= 2.63kg
15m Ozone Chrono V3 Ultralight fabric= 2.37kg

12m Flysurfer Soul = 2.27kg
15m Flysurfer Soul = 2.81kg
Last edited by dave1986 on Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jakemoore
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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby jakemoore » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:15 pm

I have a Chrono V3 13m regular and no regrets. I'm flying it in quite light winds for hydrofoil. Out of the bag it weighed 2626 grams. I would consider ultralight material as 400 grams is a noticeable difference in ability to keep the kite flying.

A few friends have 12m Soul and I have flown them back to back. I think the Soul is more air and water tight. Soul turns faster and it has more boost when you pull on the bar. The faster turning and greater boost both translate into more dynamic jumps. The Soul cloth accumulates less sand. Will the Soul stay more dry in the snow, and therefore fly better? Maybe its more of an issue on a humid beach. Both friends have had to tinker with Soul bridles.

Chrono has thicker more robust and supple bridles. There is more drag with a thicker bridle but the upside is I have not had to make any adjustment. Chrono still gives the high-aspect foil kite feeling of sitting behind you far forward in the window. I know bridle adjustments are a reality for any foil kite but my overall sense is that they are less with Ozone.

After having several FS and Ozone foil kites I would say that Flysurfer makes a better canopy and Ozone uses more robust material for bridles. The FS kites are a little more exciting especially when new. I am enjoying the lower maintenance not having to fool around with the bridles
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foilholio
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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby foilholio » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:05 am

Well V3 has kevlar bridles, so they will not last as long. It could effect resale value and longevity. Flysurfer has a good coating now that lasts a long time.

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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby jakemoore » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:46 am

foilholio wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:05 am
kevlar bridles
You might read the description again.

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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby foilholio » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:41 pm

I might read the description for the first time :-)

I see yes covered dyneema. It's the R1 that has the kevlar, I was assuming the Chrono had them too. I can't see much you avoiding any bridle problems if it has dyneema. The mixer test does tend to make things worse on flysurfers. So if you just left it all alone it would be better. Maybe Ozone has made prestretching, length compensations, line diameter optimizations or other changes to make things more even.

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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby joriws » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:40 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:24 pm
Here are the kite weights for comparison:

15m Ozone Chrono V3 Ultralight fabric= 2.37kg
15m Flysurfer Soul = 2.81kg
Are these apples to apples or apples to oranges comparison? If figures are taken from manufactor web site or did you weight them yourself in similar configuration?

I think FS announces weight with bridles and mixer because it is more convenient for them. Ozone web announces kite canopy only without mixer / bridles (not sure though). Or theoretically someone could announce simulated weight of kite, "it should have in total 30m2 of 100g/m2 fabric" => 3kg.

Bridle example Soul 15m omitting 4x pulleys:
ref weight g/m total w[g] in kite
DC 60 0,24 2,20776
DC 100 0,42 10,8045
DC 120 0,59 0
DC 160 0,87 30,87195
DC 200 1,42 34,3214
DC 300 2,01 2,814
DC 500 2,73 7,0707
total per side 88,09031g
total per kite 176,18062g

Lets say 4x pulleys are 24g => 200g mixer + pulleys

So there with pulleys potentionally is 200g weight difference explained and Chrono v3-UL vs Soul is ~200g weight difference on canopy.

Best option would be that you weighted the two kites against each other with same scale multiple times to get more reliable comparison. And for example detached front lines so you are comparing kite + bridle + mixer weight against each other (apples to apples).
Last edited by joriws on Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby dave1986 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:51 pm

joriws wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:40 pm
dave1986 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:24 pm
Here are the kite weights for comparison:

15m Ozone Chrono V3 Ultralight fabric= 2.37kg
15m Flysurfer Soul = 2.81kg
Are these apples to apples or apples to oranges comparison? If figures are taken from manufactor web site or did you weight them yourself in similar configuration?
All weights are kite only including bridles and pulleys. Weights are not published on most manufacturers websites. These weights are taken from individuals weighing their own kites (not all using same scale).

When I weighed my 13m Chrono V3 Ultralight I found that the weight was within 10grams (0.01kg) of another person's claimed weight for the same kite as published on this forum (Forum username: "foil"). So I consider these weights to be accurate and reliable.
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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby kitexpert » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:25 pm

joriws wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:40 pm
total bridle per kite 394m
This is grossly incorrect, real value is something like 160m. I added up B line row which is a bit under 20m per side, so whole kite is about 8x of that.

I've redesigned some FS kite bridles, they used to very long and I could save 30-50% total line length in bridle. Kites also became faster turning and of course easier to handle. I don't how much I could cut it with Soul without making it worse, probably not much because primary bridle is already good and short. Perhaps 10-20% could be possible, I immediately see some parts of bridle which could have been done better/saving some line. For more kite itself should be redesigned, but then it wouldn't be Soul any more.

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Re: chrono v3 vs soul 15m for snow

Postby foilholio » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:28 am

Source for your bridle expertise? And you are certain it won't affect PA change?... :roll:

joriws wrote: I think FS announces weight with bridles and mixer because it is more convenient for them.
It is more accurate too, they are part of the kite. The lines are too and to some degree the bar. The lines are technically part of the bridle.


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