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Using LEI kites on land

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Taron
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Using LEI kites on land

Postby Taron » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:56 pm

tldr: can you use an LEI kite on land?

Hi guys!

I'm a complete newbie that recently started his first lessons to learn kitesurfing and so far I did 2 lessons and I still love it. One of the few changes in my life --other than those lessons-- are that I am moving further away from the water into the land without any place to kitesurf. Since I go skiing every winter I already looked a bit into snowkiting and this feels like the perfect option. Shortly after looking into that (since I also don't live near mountains) I looked into landboarding and that got my attention. This combination would be perfect since I can do landboarding at home, snowkiting while going to the mountains and kitesurfing when going to the beach.

Now the question, since I am a beginner and buying gear for all 3 things is expensive enough already, could I save some money by buying a good LEI kite and use this one on land as well? I did a bit of googling and it isn't talked about a lot but I think it is possible, but I am not sure if this is the right way to go.

That being said, since I am asking questions here anyways I'll add a few more:
1) Assuming this is possible, what is a good size to buy that can be used on land and on the water? I am personally thinking about 10m if possible. But I do know that land requires a smaller kite and I don't plan on ending up in the hospital soon, so maybe I should buy 2 different sizes.
2) Are there any things I should look for when buying an LEI kite that I want to use on land as well?
3) Is there a website where you are able to find land and/or snow kiter communities? Would be fun to meet up with a few people and get in real life tips as a noobie ^^ (I am in The Netherlands)

Thank you all for your time! 🤞🏻

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Bille
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby Bille » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:42 pm

Hi Taron !
Your First post ; welcome to KF !! :thumb:

Don't purchase anything ; seek-out , and talk to the locals First , because
they know the weather in your aria, and can match you to the correct
size kites for water, land and snow.

The land-boards and buggy's , are a Blast ; you'll like it as well !!

Bille
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joriws
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby joriws » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:39 am

Superkiteday group has a lot of snowkite and landboard videos on youtube, and group is on facebook. Maybe there you might get some contacts. Also is there a dutch forum on FB?

If I were to start again kiteing on hard soil I would take kite like Peak4 as a trainer, mountain and landboard usage. It is cheap also as new and not exlosing lifty to make you more safe while training. It dumps power (created for the Alps, low wind on valley but nuking at the top) and flies nice in safe training winds on land. Unfortunately for beginner & water it is not recommended although intermediate & advanced riders use Peak4 on water with hydrofoils. On land if you loose kite control surface does not forgive like in water. On snow it does but I understood landboarding is #1 requirement. After you learn basics with peak4 you can move on any direction you like like more explosive kites or more hangtime foil kites etc.

So to accompany peak4 for water you need a water kite. In the beginning you might crash a lot so 2nd hand cheap & easy kite, just select right size for your weight, typical winds and board size.
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby plummet » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:43 am

Yes you can use an lei.

The downside. Its slower to set up/pack up, more likely to get damaged when crashed on land, Is less compact and your need to carry a pump if you want to go a distance.
Upside. Lots of depower, generally faster and more dynamic that foils.

10m is a good size to start with.

Make sure you have a good understanding of the wind and gusts and how wind gets disturbed around obstacles. Inland land boarding can be dangerous due dirty gusty wind and very little room for error compared to crashing in water.
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby Herman » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am

^ +1 for Billie's, Jorwis’s and Plummet's advice. LEIs are fine for land and can be good gust handlers. The only caveat I would put on that is, at least to start with, is to avoid the ones that are prone to backstall when underpowered. Not a problem with most modern designs but designs like the old kahoona are lovely when powered but a bit annoying if used for low power landboarding.

Bear in mind that from mid F4 you can ride a land board with a 3m fixed bridle 2 line kite as long as you are on hard packed sand or better. It would be a cheap way to start if you have a suitable venue. Cheap skate style trucks are adequate for this.
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby Taron » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:00 pm

Bille wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:42 pm
Hi Taron !
Your First post ; welcome to KF !! :thumb:

Don't purchase anything ; seek-out , and talk to the locals First , because
they know the weather in your aria, and can match you to the correct
size kites for water, land and snow.

The land-boards and buggy's , are a Blast ; you'll like it as well !!

Bille
Thank you! ^^

The problem for me is finding people that are willing to hang out and give me some tips. Plenty of kitesurfers in The Netherlands, but so far I haven't been able to find any groups that also land kiting.
joriws wrote: Superkiteday group has a lot of snowkite and landboard videos on youtube, and group is on facebook. Maybe there you might get some contacts. Also is there a dutch forum on FB?

If I were to start again kiteing on hard soil I would take kite like Peak4 as a trainer, mountain and landboard usage. It is cheap also as new and not exlosing lifty to make you more safe while training. It dumps power (created for the Alps, low wind on valley but nuking at the top) and flies nice in safe training winds on land. Unfortunately for beginner & water it is not recommended although intermediate & advanced riders use Peak4 on water with hydrofoils. On land if you loose kite control surface does not forgive like in water. On snow it does but I understood landboarding is #1 requirement. After you learn basics with peak4 you can move on any direction you like like more explosive kites or more hangtime foil kites etc.

So to accompany peak4 for water you need a water kite. In the beginning you might crash a lot so 2nd hand cheap & easy kite, just select right size for your weight, typical winds and board size.
So, you are recommending to buy 2 separate kites anyways? An LEI kite for water and a foil for land?
plummet wrote: Yes you can use an lei.

The downside. Its slower to set up/pack up, more likely to get damaged when crashed on land, Is less compact and your need to carry a pump if you want to go a distance.
Upside. Lots of depower, generally faster and more dynamic that foils.

10m is a good size to start with.

Make sure you have a good understanding of the wind and gusts and how wind gets disturbed around obstacles. Inland land boarding can be dangerous due dirty gusty wind and very little room for error compared to crashing in water.
If those are the only problems then I think I'll be able to handle it. I got a car so having to carry a pump or the time it takes to set up isn't an issue.

I am not sure how more likely it is to get damaged. But especially since I don't want to buy 2 kites right away I think I'll just take the risk. I'm probably buying an used kite second hand. (But still one that is not older then +/- 2015, as recommended on this forum somewhere)
Herman wrote: ^ +1 for Billie's, Jorwis’s and Plummet's advice. LEIs are fine for land and can be good gust handlers. The only caveat I would put on that is, at least to start with, is to avoid the ones that are prone to backstall when underpowered. Not a problem with most modern designs but designs like the old kahoona are lovely when powered but a bit annoying if used for low power landboarding.

Bear in mind that from mid F4 you can ride a land board with a 3m fixed bridle 2 line kite as long as you are on hard packed sand or better. It would be a cheap way to start if you have a suitable venue. Cheap skate style trucks are adequate for this.
F4 is a brand? Or what exactly are you referring to? Could you post a link maybe? :)



Thanks everyone for your replies! :)

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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby Herman » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:05 pm

F4 refers to Force4 in the Beaufort wind scale, it is 11-16knts. That is the wind where you start to get white caps and windsurfers can easily waterstart. I am old old school and many years ago I learnt all the basics, except jumping, on a 2 line 3m kite on a bar and simple landboard including sliding and carving to toeside. But I am fortunate in that I live next to a windy beach.

Once you have done some flying I would regard a fixed harness line on the bar of a 3m to be safe enough to use if reasonable common sense is applied regarding top end conditions. Which would be a cheap introduction to using a harness.
Last edited by Herman on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:02 pm

joriws wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:39 am
Superkiteday group has a lot of snowkite and landboard videos on youtube, and group is on facebook. Maybe there you might get some contacts. Also is there a dutch forum on FB?

If I were to start again kiteing on hard soil I would take kite like Peak4 as a trainer, mountain and landboard usage. It is cheap also as new and not exlosing lifty to make you more safe while training. It dumps power (created for the Alps, low wind on valley but nuking at the top) and flies nice in safe training winds on land. Unfortunately for beginner & water it is not recommended although intermediate & advanced riders use Peak4 on water with hydrofoils. On land if you loose kite control surface does not forgive like in water. On snow it does but I understood landboarding is #1 requirement. After you learn basics with peak4 you can move on any direction you like like more explosive kites or more hangtime foil kites etc.

So to accompany peak4 for water you need a water kite. In the beginning you might crash a lot so 2nd hand cheap & easy kite, just select right size for your weight, typical winds and board size.
TLDR: Yes, they work fine.

Joriws is right. I have a long history of using LEI kites on land without issue. In fact on the really gusty inland lakes on snow I often thought LEI was more manageable than the foil kites I saw getting messed up by swirly inland wind. BUT, he's right about the peak4. Easiest and safest way to learn/teach as they fly nicely in safe low winds. If I ever buy a bigger peak than the 5m, it will be primarily for snow. Would do just as well for landboard. In fact they would be hands down the most convenient, safe and easy kites for snow and landboard. If you have plans to hydrofoil down the road, they are the go for that too, but also agree, a used 10-12m alround LEI for water use is good advice. If your not sure and not going to jump into the Peak4 idea. I get it. But they are relatively inexpensive, so keep them in mind if you start getting frustrated with your 10-12m LEI on landboard and in the cold.
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby ieism » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:21 pm

You can use a peak 4 as a beginner on water, especially if you've already practiced on land or snow a lot. Ive had a single 2 hour lesson on a LEI and went straight to riding a twintip with a peak 11m without help. They are easy to fly, and if you already do other boardsports you'll be riding in no time.
Find a shallow uncrowded lake for your first sessions, the 8m peak is probably best suited for a beginner.

But make sure you 100% control the kite on land in all positions, and can for instance already do a controlled long slide on your feet on the beach. Backstall it. Reverse it, loop it all that stuff. Start in light wind and work your way up before taking it to the water.
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Re: Using LEI kites on land

Postby Taron » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:39 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:02 pm
joriws wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:39 am
Superkiteday group has a lot of snowkite and landboard videos on youtube, and group is on facebook. Maybe there you might get some contacts. Also is there a dutch forum on FB?

If I were to start again kiteing on hard soil I would take kite like Peak4 as a trainer, mountain and landboard usage. It is cheap also as new and not exlosing lifty to make you more safe while training. It dumps power (created for the Alps, low wind on valley but nuking at the top) and flies nice in safe training winds on land. Unfortunately for beginner & water it is not recommended although intermediate & advanced riders use Peak4 on water with hydrofoils. On land if you loose kite control surface does not forgive like in water. On snow it does but I understood landboarding is #1 requirement. After you learn basics with peak4 you can move on any direction you like like more explosive kites or more hangtime foil kites etc.

So to accompany peak4 for water you need a water kite. In the beginning you might crash a lot so 2nd hand cheap & easy kite, just select right size for your weight, typical winds and board size.
TLDR: Yes, they work fine.

Joriws is right. I have a long history of using LEI kites on land without issue. In fact on the really gusty inland lakes on snow I often thought LEI was more manageable than the foil kites I saw getting messed up by swirly inland wind. BUT, he's right about the peak4. Easiest and safest way to learn/teach as they fly nicely in safe low winds. If I ever buy a bigger peak than the 5m, it will be primarily for snow. Would do just as well for landboard. In fact they would be hands down the most convenient, safe and easy kites for snow and landboard. If you have plans to hydrofoil down the road, they are the go for that too, but also agree, a used 10-12m alround LEI for water use is good advice. If your not sure and not going to jump into the Peak4 idea. I get it. But they are relatively inexpensive, so keep them in mind if you start getting frustrated with your 10-12m LEI on landboard and in the cold.

Perfect! Thank you for the feedback :)

The Peak4 is still +/- 500 euros, which isn't the problem in itself, but that means I have to spend 500 on top of everything else. And since I am not able to use the Peak4 in the water for kitesurfing, a LEI makes more sense for me. At least for now.

So you recommend a used 10-12m LEI kite for both water, snow and land? That sounds like a good deal for me to be honest.


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