Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Forum for snow- and landkiters
User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1881
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby Flyboy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:28 pm

UKSurf wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:24 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:43 pm
UKSurf wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:19 pm
I totally agree with the sentiment that lessons are not a guarantee for safety. I have seen some very wreckless instructors taking students out in totally unsuitable conditions. At the end of the day they cant afford to wait for the right conditions. In my opinion you can learn to kitesurf on your own if you are careful about the conditions and locations, and take things one step at a time. Kitesurfing/snow kiting is like paragliding in that it can kill you or cause very serious injuries. However I would say there are safe conditions in kitesurfing (light winds, big open beaches) where very little can go wrong. From my limited experience, with paragliding there are no safe zones you are always one mistake or equipment failure away from something very bad happening. An experienced paraglider who is good at assessing risk could certainly teach themselves to snow kite in my opinion.
If you are on the "south coast" of the UK I doubt you have had much experience with snow kiting. The OP is only talking about snow kiting, which is a whole different kettle of fish than kitesurfing. Essentially, I learned to kite on the snow - there was nobody around to teach kiting at that time. It was pretty straightforward to learn alone & as I had pretty much unlimited space it was quite "safe" ( although there's always some element of risk as you progress to larger kites/higher winds).
Dont jump to conclusions. I have done quite a bit of snow kiting abroad and unless you are doing it in mountains and flying off slopes it is easier and safer than learning to kitesurf on water in my opinion.
I agree, there's a big difference between learning to kitesurfing (ie. on water) & learning to kite ski - which is what the OP was talking about. I'm not sure why you bought up kitesurfing. For 12 years I lived in a house where this was the view from my backdoor (not 12 months of the year, thankfully!). There's no easier way to learn to fly a traction kite safely IMO.
A Whole Lot of Lake Simcoe.jpg

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world
Has thanked: 163 times
Been thanked: 187 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:59 am

Flyboy wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:28 pm
I agree, there's a big difference between learning to kitesurfing (ie. on water) & learning to kite ski - which is what the OP was talking about. I'm not sure why you bought up kitesurfing. For 12 years I lived in a house where this was the view from my backdoor (not 12 months of the year, thankfully!). There's no easier way to learn to fly a traction kite safely IMO.

A Whole Lot of Lake Simcoe.jpg
UKSurf wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:24 pm
Dont jump to conclusions. I have done quite a bit of snow kiting abroad and unless you are doing it in mountains and flying off slopes it is easier and safer than learning to kitesurf on water in my opinion.
I'll do my best to keep this simple.....


Water vs land are just about equvalent to eachother regarding safety.

Land is looked at as safer not just because there is no chance of drowning, but mostly because you can get away with less kite power (can use an underpowered kite). So even with always having a solid surface to contend with slamming into, you wont get slammed so hard.

Water is looked at as safer because it is obviously softer to impact than land.

So if we just kited with underpowered kites on land, and never left the soft water when kiteboarding, it would pretty much balance. But water launching conditions are what actually makes water kiting more dangerous than land. At less than ideal water launches, you launch from a solid surface, and are a "land kiter" who has to navigate on foot through sometimes what seems like an obstacle course. Whereas when actually land kiting, you pretty much launch and land somewhere it is safe to ride.

But if you want to make land again just as dangerous, then use a full sized kite equvalent to the size you would use on water in that wind speed.

User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1881
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby Flyboy » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:57 am

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:59 am
Flyboy wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:28 pm
I agree, there's a big difference between learning to kitesurfing (ie. on water) & learning to kite ski - which is what the OP was talking about. I'm not sure why you bought up kitesurfing. For 12 years I lived in a house where this was the view from my backdoor (not 12 months of the year, thankfully!). There's no easier way to learn to fly a traction kite safely IMO.

A Whole Lot of Lake Simcoe.jpg
UKSurf wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:24 pm
Dont jump to conclusions. I have done quite a bit of snow kiting abroad and unless you are doing it in mountains and flying off slopes it is easier and safer than learning to kitesurf on water in my opinion.
I'll do my best to keep this simple.....


Water vs land are just about equvalent to eachother regarding safety.

Land is looked at as safer not just because there is no chance of drowning, but mostly because you can get away with less kite power (can use an underpowered kite). So even with always having a solid surface to contend with slamming into, you wont get slammed so hard.

Water is looked at as safer because it is obviously softer to impact than land.

So if we just kited with underpowered kites on land, and never left the soft water when kiteboarding, it would pretty much balance. But water launching conditions are what actually makes water kiting more dangerous than land. At less than ideal water launches, you launch from a solid surface, and are a "land kiter" who has to navigate on foot through sometimes what seems like an obstacle course. Whereas when actually land kiting, you pretty much launch and land somewhere it is safe to ride.

But if you want to make land again just as dangerous, then use a full sized kite equvalent to the size you would use on water in that wind speed.
You do need much more power just get up & go on the water, so you're inherently introducing greater risk. With snow kiting it depends what obstacles you have to contend with. Snow kiting on a small field with gusty wind & trees around could be hazardous. Snow kiting with miles of open space a lot less. And snow, depending on the kind of snow, is relatively harmless to fall on. On the other hand, jumping off snow - which can be very easy to get big air off - can be very risky. In any case, the OP is really just talking about getting started snow kiting, so yeah, very modestly powered on now is a pretty safe way to learn.

fernmanus
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1527
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:53 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby fernmanus » Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:02 am

I don’t think you can make generalizations about the safety of snow kiting vs water vs land. There are just too many variables based on location. Wind conditions, surface, obstacles, number of people, etc.

So, I bridle when I see postings that say it is safe to learn how to snowkite without instruction. It is true that there are a few bad instructors out there, but you can look up a Google review for most instructors these days. My question is why would you tell a new kiter to skip this step? I get it that PG is more dangerous and there is some carry over to kiting, but there is plenty of information that does not overlap. I learned to kite over 20 years ago and I had to fly to Maui to take lessons. Today, plenty of high quality instructors are available without flying 2,000 miles, so I say take lessons as it will help you learn how to be safe and lessen your learning curve. I agree with the comment that I would fly a trainer kite for many, many hours before taking a lesson.

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2364
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby downunder » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:31 am

Bacause

That is you.

Someone else might pick it up in an instant. So it might be one hour training max.

Where is the adventure gone?

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world
Has thanked: 163 times
Been thanked: 187 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:47 pm

downunder wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:31 am
Bacause

That is you.

Someone else might pick it up in an instant. So it might be one hour training max.

Where is the adventure gone?
Of the 4-5 truly gifted beginners I have helped to learn kiteboarding, none of them picked up safety skills faster than the less capable beginners. Your "adventure" lies therein. Kiteboarding is never "safe", with or without instruction.

Instruction simply has a better, though not perfect, safety record during those first few lessons. And this is not to dissuade anyone from taking lessons. Lessons that you likely don't get hurt during, cost a bit less than your first try with your own gear that gets wrecked and sends you to the hospital.

Thus I am also an advocate for lessons. But the idea that lessons will make you safe after those lessons, is wrong, and harmful. You, and you alone, must decide to take safety seriously.

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2364
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby downunder » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:46 am

And,

Where is the adventure gone? Or maybe better, common sense from other sport to kiting?

Seems like everyone is concerned about health, and completely discarding OP PG experience. Like do we understand the PG safety?

As mentioned, we do not know the OP DHV rating, right? He might have 2000 hours flying experience and advanced PG tricks under the belt. Tricks, yes.

So in reality, a kite flying might be an easy peasy piece of cake.

At the end, he wont drown, wont he? If someone breaks limbs hitting a rock, how exactly training would prevent this is unknown to me. Btw, we, PG pilots, also break limbs climbing that hill we launch from. Part of adventure. Maybe we should get a climbing training, dont know. Walking on a slippery terrain training. Selecting proper PG shoes training. Why not ;)

I recon the thread is a click bite. Soon we will see "balerina (...insert whatever...) wants to...."

2 posts by OP ;) Figure for yourself...

User avatar
Bille
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3686
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm
Local Beach: Lake Mohave
Gear: Ozone Edge
Brand Affiliation: Barz Optics
Jaybar Dynabar V7
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby Bille » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:13 pm

downunder wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:46 am
...

Seems like everyone is concerned about health, and completely discarding OP PG experience. Like do we understand the PG safety?

As mentioned, we do not know the OP DHV rating, right? He might have 2000 hours flying experience and advanced PG tricks under the belt. Tricks, yes.

So in reality, a kite flying might be an easy peasy piece of cake.

...
I understand PG safety ; got a Lot of years under my belt, (30, with No injury).
Hang gliding i haven't bin so lucky.

I asked what PG rating the OP had, in my first reply ; he didn't answer. I will
say this : if anyone thinks snow kiting is easy peasy piece of cake and doesn't
need any instruction ; his odds of survival are quite low, (not saying it can't be done
though).

Initially what gets a guy through the first few years of a new adrenaline sport
"Any adrenaline sport"
would be his support group ; without it , kinda makes learning even harder,
making the odds of survival even lower.

Bille

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2364
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby downunder » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:06 am

Ha ha

Bille, I never snowboarded in my life till was 40.

Picked it up instanly. Guess how? From riding a TT. On 4th day was on the black slope -slow but managed. Did not die.
I hope we understand what black slope is on 3600m above sea with 500-1000m drop!

All surfers can pickup snow board riding in an instant after they switch legs - pushing front leg.
Hordes of Aussies who never seen the snow before go to Japan and Canada, not to mention NZ. Many try kite on snow too. Many try PG as well. It would be in TV news that someone died. We are very small contry, everthing end up in the news. Trust me on that. Every single Aussie who died overseas in an avalache was in the news. One thing, AU has snowboard champions! But we have no snow like the rest!

We are forgeting what kitesurfing is:
- one of the easiest (extreme) sport to pickup

I cant imagine any injuries on low wind. Any.
Use Peak and injuries would be zero.

A child can fly an Peak.

Having said that, Perth gets a lot of wind. But one of main false "propaganda" - and that is from the schools, is that only kite needed is an 9m. Every single newbie buys one, because he was TOLD that by the instructor. That is an utter and completely wrong advice for an newbie.

Not one single school adviced a newbie to learn in light wind, imo. Maybe instructors in the US are top blokes though ;) And maybe this thread is about the medicare worries, and expense in the US. But it always amases me that parents teach their own kids to drive a car. Are they qualified instructors? That does not bother anyone?

No clue any more what is this all about.

User avatar
Bille
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3686
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm
Local Beach: Lake Mohave
Gear: Ozone Edge
Brand Affiliation: Barz Optics
Jaybar Dynabar V7
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Paraglider Wants To Snow Kite

Postby Bille » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:15 am

*


Return to “Snow / Land”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests