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Bit help please...

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sandyd
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Bit help please...

Postby sandyd » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:15 pm

Hi all,

I bought my son (11 year old) a wee trainer kite at the start of the summer and he's really enjoying it. I already had a land board from about 15 years ago when I used to go down west sands at St Andrew's with my Beamer 5.

I've now bought myself a Flexifoil Blade 2 (6.4m) and buggy off eBay and am wanting to get back into kiting again. As the Beamer was flown with handles, and the Blade is on a bar, I'm a bit confused with the set-up.
KiteBarSetup.png


There are four lines but the middle two are connected to the outside two with a small bit of cord. Hope its clear what lines are what.
LineSetup.png
When I had my Beamer, It was 2 power lines and 2 brake lines. Pulling on the middle lines, which I assumed would be the brake lines puts the kite higher up in the sky? Is this what you would call a depowerable kite?

Also, the chicken loop doesn't seem to have any kind of safety release so not sure about hooking into a harness.

The seller said they used it with a buggy and would be keen to do so myself.

Any suggestions/info/tips would be happily received.

B-Roc
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby B-Roc » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:24 pm

It looks to me like the previous owner has turned that into essentially a two lined (powers) bias kite. I use to fly Blades and Begos in the fixed bridle days and while I did fly Blades on bars for a short period of time (landboard and ski), I ultimately switched them all back over to handles as that offers the best control as you can pull turn, push turn, combo turn, turn on the brakes only, etc. depending on how tight a turn you need to make or how much power you want to retain or kill during a turn.

That setup is not a depower setup. I imagine pulling the bar in or pushing the bar out will have some affect on the brakes but that will be kept in check by the yellow limiter / link line that seemingly joins the brakes to the power lines.

If the previous owner use to fly that way then the setup is likely dialed for performance so if you are daring, try it out in low winds in a safe place to figure things out. It was not uncommon to fly blades on crossover bars and other setups but even though some of those setups worked well, they didn't work as well as handles. Try it and if you don't like how it performs then deconstruct that link line and go back to handles (as the kite was intended to be flown). Do not give that setup to your 11 year old until you know how well it works. Blades were "widow makers" for a reason and while that reputation predominantly belonged to the 4.9, the II series was still pretty raw in all sizes and your bar appears to have no safety (some Flexi bars allowed you to release the chicken loop and the center line (brakes) was retained by a kite killer strapped to your wrist.) and potentially no easy way to kill/land the kite if overpowered.
Last edited by B-Roc on Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Herman
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby Herman » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:33 pm

B-Roc is on the money. There were all sorts of attempts to make what you have, a fixed bridled four line kite, work well on a bar but none of them are worth pursuing imho. Your bar picture does not show how the leaders are connected, if there are pulleys it may be a turbo style bar. If you search for turbo bar on YouTube you should find some vids. Personally I would recommend the same as above and go back to handles. Main bridle line to top of handle, brakes (attached to trailing edge) to bottom of handle and get rid of yellow interconnecting line. Once experienced think about a harness line between top of handles. You have a very powerful kite. Start in light wind. Kite killers or leash attached to the bottom of the handle. Learn how to use a stake etc.

Depower kites are different as they control the AoA. Look at vids of LEI before trying to understand how foils do the equivalent with the mixer system.
Last edited by Herman on Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Matteo V
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby Matteo V » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:27 pm

A friend of mine and I took some of our old fixed bridle foil kites and made speed systems for them. In steady wind, they kind of worked as depower kites. In turbulent wind, they didn't.

Handles are best for fixed bridle. Bars work. Converting to depower doesn't seem to work(on most kites).
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Herman
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby Herman » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:48 pm

Could also have mentioned that some 4 line fixed bridle kites work well on 2 lines, just by connecting main and brake to one flying line on each side. I fly my Flexi Bullets like that for buggy and skateboarding. Blades are not suitable for that as they are higher aspect ratio and do not turn quick enough on two lines - hence the various weird bars and cross links at the bridle in an attempt to increase turning speed. With handles blades turn quickly and can even pivot.

PS Do an even line length check. I acquired an old 4.9 Blade a few months ago and I had to shorten the fronts by about 15cm to make it flyable, front and rears are not only loaded asymmetrically, they are also different spec line so shrinkage at different rates over the years.
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Herman
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby Herman » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:16 pm

Did any of the above help?

sandyd
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby sandyd » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:01 pm

Thanks for all the above suggestions and information, much appreciated.

Think I'll just remove the links and buy some handles and kite killers.

@B-Roc: No way is my son getting hold of the Blade, its probably too powerful for me, let alone him :)

@Herman: Bar and line setup is not a crossover, although it does look like an option?

What's my best option for a harness so I can hook in/out for buggying or boarding? (Just to rest my arms) Would something like this work: https://powerkiteshop.com/peter-lynn-ba ... arness.htm using just the standard spreader bar?

Thanks again

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Re: Bit help please...

Postby Aberdovy kiter » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:19 pm

sandyd wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:01 pm
Thanks for all the above suggestions and information, much appreciated.

Think I'll just remove the links and buy some handles and kite killers.

@B-Roc: No way is my son getting hold of the Blade, its probably too powerful for me, let alone him :)

@Herman: Bar and line setup is not a crossover, although it does look like an option?

What's my best option for a harness so I can hook in/out for buggying or boarding? (Just to rest my arms) Would something like this work: https://powerkiteshop.com/peter-lynn-ba ... arness.htm using just the standard spreader bar?

Thanks again
Simple but potentially dangerous run a length of rope between handles and hook that onto your harness hook, i personally when i flew blades used a wichard quick release connected to a pulley, then connect handles with a length of rope which will run through the pulley, on the flexifoil handles there used to short pig tails on the bottom of the bar i used these to connect the rope, hope that makes sense..
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Herman
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Re: Bit help please...

Postby Herman » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:30 pm

Suggested harness looks ok for starting out on handles. Even if you update a minimalistic harness is nice on a light wind sunny day.

Harness line/main bridle goes to pigs at top of handle. Kite killers/brakes to bottom.

Personally I have never seen a qr system that I thought was worth the trouble with handles. But it does mean you have to build your experience carefully particularly with big kites, your idea of just using the harness for resting to start with is very sensible.
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