New snowkite advice

[flinkdynamic]

My son is getting more involved in snowkiting. He has a few years of experience ground handling 1m-3m kites, and some brief work with a 5m. He understands the wind window, control with a bar, and does some snowkiting on the lake in winter with a 2.5m dual line on bar. I'd like to get him on a ~4m depower setup. I have looked at the Ozone Uno, Slingshot Rally, HQ4 Rush. I felt that an LEI would be less frustrating for him in our gusty conditions. Budget is ~$500. I could convert an old Ozone Turbo Bar to save on bar cost.

Advice or alternate considerations appreciated!

[gl]

I would recommend a concept air 4.5 smart kite. They have large depower and handle gusty winds really well. Even in strong wind if I pull the strap across the back lines it just drops straight down and sits so it's easy to bring the kite down.

[bragnouff]

I would suggest a Peak4 4m or 3m, maybe on shorter lines. Those kites are very easy and intuitive to fly, bombproof on snow, and would save on the hassle of pumping up a LEI in sub zero conditions. But then, if I was targeting frozen lakes (flat) with gusty winds, I'd probably just put my kid onto a hand wing, as a super safe option that has enough performance for the task at hand. For going up slopes and exploring mountains, not so much, of course.

[flinkdynamic]

Thanks for both of the suggestions. I have no experience with single skins, so I'd like to look into those a little more.

[nate76]

How much does your son weigh?

I'll second using a single skin the 4m Peak or 4m Shaman. Single skins make great kites to learn on and you can't blow them up on a hard crash like a more traditional foil kite. And they are so easy to throw out and pack up. The 4m Shaman is what I started my son on for his 1st depower kite.

[flinkdynamic]

He weighs close to 115lbs. Many years ago, I made an NPW, but the upwind performance is very poor. How is the upwind performance of the smaller Peak/Shaman single skin kites? Would you change anything knowing the 'local beach' was 11 Mile?

[nate76]

11 Mile, CO?

Single skins are not going to be as efficient as a normal twin-skin kite, but on snow you can still get upwind pretty easily - unless you are really overpowered. I'd would say the ability to go upwind would be more a factor of kiter skill than kite efficiency; if he is struggling to go upwind on a single skin on snow its likely he would also be having the same problem on an inflatable or other foil kite.

At 115lb and assuming he's still growing; I'd prolly lean towards a 4m. The other beauty of single skins is that even the small sizes do great in light winds, they just generate less power.

[Hardwater Kiter]

If you are looking for a kite to do mixed duty as a trainer/riding kite for a 115lb rider, the 3m Peak 4 is what I would put him on. It will give him something to learn on that will be fun, forgiving and nearly indestructible but can still easily be used for riding in moderate winds when surface conditions and wind conditions allow.

Eventually as he grows and his skillset grows, he'll want more power and the 3m will be relegated to his high wind option.

The 3m is our go to for beginner riders on the 90 to 120 lb range.

It is a kite that responds well to line length for power management. 10 years ago doing lessons in anything over 20kts was generally a challenge. Now with the performance available in the Peak 4, with the right line length, lessons in 30kts are actually fun.

It's a great all rounder.

Side note, NPWs can't come anywhere near the upwind that a Peak or other current single skin can manage. Which will help considerably.

A few things to consider before making a choice would be what would the average wind range be? Is he on skis or a board? What are the dimensions of the ski/board? What would be the most common surface condition and terrain type?

What is on your feet is at least as important as what you put in the air.

In regard to modding the old Turbo bar. The Peak, Shaman or Explore (Ozone single skin) all can be used with a 5th line safety or an front line safety. The Turbo uses the old top hat safety found on early Ozone and HQs. It may work to some extent but not ideally.

[Herman]

To me a turbo bar is a design which was for flying fixed bridle kites on a bar. The rigging would have to be completely reworked to make it useful for a depower kite. Basically it would be just parts you could use in a complete rebuild.

You have some good practical suggestions assuming your conditions are typical of what many often describe, including me, as gusty. Personally if I have rigged a sensible size, it is rarely the gusts that are problematic, the problem is managing the lulls. As we are talking a light weight, a small single skin that flys up well and stays in the air easily is likely to be more fun than a heavy multi strut super stable storm LEI imho.

[Windigo1]

LEI kite will be more stable and forgiving in very gusty wind but the problem is that they are heavy. I had a 5M 3 struts that I had bought for foiling and it would fall from the sky below 15 knots. I finally bought a Naish Boxer 5M single strut. It's for great for foiling and it's also a pretty good high wind kite. If you want to go with a foil kite and you don't want to bust your budget the Pansh Genesis is very stable and very inexpensive. a 4M is only 120$ it will work with a regular bar if you can a add a firth line or you can remove it.