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New snowkite advice

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flinkdynamic
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Re: New snowkite advice

Postby flinkdynamic » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:45 am

@nate76, yes, 11 Mile CO.

This is all great advice, thank you all very much. I'm happy to hear that my upwind performance comparison of an NPW to a single skin is ill-founded. My son is on 157 skis, and has used mostly fixed-bridal foils in the 2.5m range on a bar with simple leash safety. He has done ground handling on larger kites with depower. The single-skin is really growing on me for the reasons you've all pointed out here - not to mention, yes, the lulls on the lake can suck the fun right out of it. Fighting with a kite to keep it in the air is exhausting, and I want him to enjoy his time out there more than anything.

Regarding the turbo bar, yes, it would be a complete rebuild.

I tried a friend's Pansh years ago and had issues that required a lot of tuning. That particular kite was not great out of the box, and I recall some tuning discussions online about them at the time, but this was several years ago. Ideally, I'd like to get him something that's going to fly controllably (and be safe) out of the box.

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Hardwater Kiter
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Re: New snowkite advice

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:24 pm

flinkdynamic wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:45 am
I tried a friend's Pansh years ago and had issues that required a lot of tuning. That particular kite was not great out of the box, and I recall some tuning discussions online about them at the time, but this was several years ago. Ideally, I'd like to get him something that's going to fly controllably (and be safe) out of the box.
The common trait with Pansh. They can be hit or miss with build quality but if you have some tuning experience or can research it, they can be quite good options on a budget. But there is something to be said for a kite that flies well right out of the box and has some support from the manufacturers or dealer if there is an issue or question. And Pansh doesn't have anything in the stable that does what a single skin can do.

Here's an old vid of the Peak 2 on a light wind day. Nothing earth-shaking but it gives some sense of how these kites fly.

One of the best features about single skins is that they float for a long time in a lull. Lots more time for recovery and if moving, holes are often flown through without hardly noticing beyond a drop in power.

Here's a link to our recommended equipment page. It will give you some idea about the types of gear we use for snowkiting and why. It includes specifics in regards to carve radius, underfoot width, and other things for what you run on your feet. The nice thing about snowkiting is you don't need the latest greatest and there are deals to be had for things like skis and boards.

https://www.hardwaterkiter.com/skis-boards-boots.html
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flinkdynamic
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Re: New snowkite advice

Postby flinkdynamic » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:05 pm

Wow, the start of that video is a good example of the drift capability as you approach apparent wind speed (even though it was momentary). It looked like fairly light winds, and I think my 11m foil would have frontstalled/hindenburged in those conditions while moving directly toward the kite. Quickly sidestepping upwind on ice to regain control gets old quickly.

Now asking for myself, how do these single skins perform in the larger sizes (11m/13m)? I assume they have poor lift capability, but it really looks like they could drift well in holes.

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Hardwater Kiter
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Re: New snowkite advice

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:31 am

flinkdynamic wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:05 pm
Now asking for myself, how do these single skins perform in the larger sizes (11m/13m)? I assume they have poor lift capability, but it really looks like they could drift well in holes.
Initially, the early ones produced very little, near-zero lift. Which was a benefit for example when approaching ridgelines or in conditions where rotors or compression could loft you.

The current versions offer more lift, though not like the lift you would have in a dual skin like a Subzero or a Soul. They have exceptional light wind ability and considerably better depower than their dual skin counterparts.

The 11m Peak 4 with a 27m lineset can fly powered similarly to an 18m Ozone Chrono V4. Though it won't manage the same upwind or lift. But for the money, it's a hell of a good option. The 13m Peak is a beast of a light wind kite and a great option for light wind for heavier riders.

This was a day on with 3 kites. A 17m Ozone R1 (red with me on it), 18m Ozone Chrono V2 and a 12m Gin Shaman (one of our single skin offerings at the time) The Shaman rider dressed out at about 200lbs and was able to fly just fine with the bigger higher performance wings. Even with his limited experience snowkiting at the time. The guys that were out with me on this day had both driven up about 7hrs to demo kites with me. Both had no confidence that they would even get a kite in the air let alone ride. But kites are amazing these days!



The Peak 4 11m flies with about the same power but has a lighter feel and better bottom end IMO. The 13m as I stated is a beast comparatively. :-)

nate76
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Re: New snowkite advice

Postby nate76 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:22 am

I was pretty surprised at the amount of float the 12m Shaman had - it was more than I was expecting. As Hardwater mentioned, the single skins pull several sizes larger than a normal twin skin, although they won't be quite as efficient or lifty. Price-per-pullforce though; they are hard to beat.


drone
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Re: New snowkite advice

Postby drone » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:13 am

Would`not invest much in first season kite, it will get dragged/beaten on snow and ice.
I bought cheapest used inflatable allrounder 3,5m & 5m I could find for my kids. Size depend on surface condition. Inflateble holds shape and are predictible and more durable when draged on leadingedge.


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