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My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

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Ice101
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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Ice101 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:09 am

You can blow cells on souls. All it takes is the kite to come down leading edge first. I have had it happen on a brand new 9m and my 10m now. Flysurfer have been great and covered it on warranty thank god but all it takes is the leading edge to hit down first from some slack lines following a gust or failed loop or any accident where the kite comes down leading edge down.Exactly how they show in the crash test video actually but in the video they don’t show you inside the chambers afterwards to show if there is damage done?
My two souls both blew centre chambers One tore down the outside Stitching and the other in one of the vents. I don’t know whether this is down to materials or stitching. When it blows it tends to damage the material in the vents on the inside as well. So if buying second hand have a good peer down all the air vents and definitely check the centre cells down the stitching on both sides. My 9m kept its shape and it was only luck that I inspected the kite after the kite fell out the sky and saw it go leading edge down that I noticed it. It still relaunched Absolutely fine and flew Fine having not realised anything was wrong and kited on for about 15 minutes after it had come down. I only saw it had blown when looking down a centre air intake after landing and inspecting before packing away as I always do. The 10m also relaunched straight away no probs but i could see straight away the kite wasn’t the correct shape and dipping in the middle a little, that one blew first day of a two week holiday and was less than four months old too. Was gutted as it ruined that Hol but hey ho. I am concerned about durability now as you would be after two kites did the same And after the warranty runs out as a year flies by fast and neither of my kites came out the sky hard.
The soul is an amazing design and is the best kites I have flown in 11 years of flying. I hope that my incidents were just bad luck as the design is so good I have other sizes and switched to souls from lei’s completely now. I hope they find a way of making it tougher especially as marketed for free ride /freestyle disciplines in which you would want to try new stuff and tricks.

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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:00 am

How hard are you tomahawking these? Any pics of the damage? I’ve crashed mine but haven’t had this issue. Curious to see where it’s happening. Next time I go out I’ll inspect mine and see if I’ve had anything similar.

Ice101
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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Ice101 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:18 pm

I’m not sure what you mean by tomohawking? The second be one fell out the sky after a gust in Egypt when I messed up a transition and tripped off the board at breakers. The wind is gusty and horrible there and there is turbulents in certain areas. Especially near the launch which is dangerous. My partner and I watched a few people get in trouble there but the kite just fell from the sky. It landed leading edge down. It didn’t come down hard at all and I was shocked that it Was enough to cause damage. You couldn’t do much there in the way of tricks or try stuff as it was so bloody busy so was mostly mowing the grass with every one else.

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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:10 pm

Ice101 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:18 pm
I’m not sure what you mean by tomohawking?
I think he wants to say, that drops which are able to explode a foil kites are never light.

I crashed a few kites during drop tests and even if knowing how to do this well. For a 62 kg guy it is nealy impossible to explode most kites just by staying on the ground. I alwas had to fix the kite to a fundament or put myself as deep into the water as possible, in the best case with another guy holding the harness. For sure for someone with 120 kg it is easier. And for sure many more thinks play a role: hardest drops are straight down with maybe longer lines giving more room for accelaration. And you can have one "Monday Kite" where it happens more easily to one rip that explodes, but two times? Due to the actuall fabric Soul is for sure a bit more sensible to crashes then other kites have been, but I haven't heard anything that they are super sensible. FS has 15 years of experience with expoding kites, they don't sell kites for which they couldn't affort the free repair guarantee they offer.

Try to improve handling. When you fly into a hole in gusty conditions, learn to kick / pull out the weaker stearing line, to prevent kite from colapsing. It is something you have to learn till it becomes a natural reflex, which shouldn't take more than 1/2 secound. The same when the kite turns around in the air and accelerate straight to the ground, just kick away one line with your hand to prevent a full forward crash.

This is the movement I mean just 100 times faster, important for all foil kiters who prefer to have close to 100% control of their kite.


Ice101
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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Ice101 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:42 pm

I get you but it’s hard to do that if you fallen in the water. Face first or otherwise and when the lines have gone slack with kit above you. No resistance to make any difference o line tugs. I have 11 years experience kiting. This is my first year on a foil kite.
I was on bandits before and they were pretty indestructible. A failed dark slide loop or hand plant transition has the potential to send a kite into the water leading edge down if the kite doesn’t complete the loop.
As does tripping over the edge of the board after a failed trick or even a plain jump as the kite can take you quite forward and can overfly on the odd occasion leading to slack lines etc. Free ride kites and freestyle marketed kites have to be fun to use and are bought for the purpose of learning these things. Why would you buy that style kite if it wasn’t for that purpose? The soul is an amazing kite as I said. Best design I have flown for fun but it is a freeride/freestyle marketed kite so it does have to be fit for that purpose without having to wear kid gloves. I understand this is their first real one designed for that and it is a cracker and Like I said flysurfer have been great and honoured the warranty and I love their products. I am 84kgs by the way and both happened on the water not on land. The 9m was on 20m lines and the 10m 23m lines. The 10m is still with fs but it’s on its way back to me Monday. :-) I hope it was just bad luck of which i obviously have lots and the kites will now last me a couple years at least.

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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby foilholio » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:44 pm

Blowing cells on foil kites is a major weakness in their design. There has been a few attempts at solutions. The flexible valves on the bottom skin don't work and would be why flysurfer stopped using them. Vents on the trailing edge seem to work, but they have to open at low enough pressure. Lighter velcro would allow this but then as well the kite would deflate, which is actually better than repairing it. You can do things to weaken the velcro, like put some cover over part of it like another piece of velcro or place part of the sock in it. You could even destroy some of it. Pansh uses a magnetic vent, which can self reset to be closed again. It does however leak air and is a little heavy. I don't think the perfect solution has been found, some of them do help. Testing what works has the wonderful cost of repairing the blown cells if it doesn't work, so not even I am willing to do tests. I have over time crashed kites and the vents in the trailing edge seem to help. I even had a Pansh kite that I crash a few times with the magnet vents and had no issue and then decided to remove the magnets and sew them shut and then crashed the kite and.. it blew cells.

You can see blown cells by a very puffy appearance to the kite. You can also pull at the fabric from top and bottom skin and it comes apart. It has a bad effect on flying. Some of what Ice101 has described is not really blown cells but just internal damage. Blown cells are internal damage but quite severe.

Foil kites are very durable but this is an issue. The smaller and faster the kite and the more wind the more likely it can be damaged by hitting it into the water or ground. I have never had this happen to a kite 10m or over, but I would say a faster 10m could do it. I also haven't crashed a 10m in 35knots. In 35knots a 6m is just about guaranteed to explode if you tomahawk it. You can blow 1 cell, but you are quite likely to blow more. I have blow something like 10 cells with like 20-30 straps inside. It was a multiday adventure to fix.

It would be nice if the brands put a little effort to find the best solution for this. Quite weird Pansh has what may be the best so far.

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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby downunder » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:44 am

Sorry guys,


This is something I was writing about more than a year ago.

Blowing the panels is an issue due to a fabric. If one is not tomahawking the kite occasionally, that is saying more about the style than kite flying technique.

Freestyle is about taking risks, and tomahawking will happen no matter what.

The hand drag rotation or hand plant is particularly prone to stuff up the kite, and if one can do that 100% of time I take my hat off...

I ripped my Cat LE to TE and was holding on a "thread". Still could get back to the beach. Cost to fix? 30mins on my sewing machine.

My buddy ripped 8 panels out of warranty. Cost like a LEI second hand kite. Plus shipping to the EU.

So, taking a Ferrari for a rally or off road? One particular member here is promoting this approach. I guess comes back to a disposable income AND style.

So Horses for courses for me. No kite serves all purposes no matter how one is trying...

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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Ice101 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:36 pm

I get what your saying above. Did you mean me as that member?
Exactly right but if a Ferrari is suddenly recommended for off road use and targeted for the off road market it should be capable of doing it and modified accordingly.
I think flysurfer would be wise to look at the new aluula material. I think a foil with an aluula leading edge or similar and maybe some thin strips down the cells under the Dacron would be the answer. The cells blow because the stitching rips through the Dacron at the seams. If they had a thin strip of aluula or similar extremely light but extremely strong material down the stitching that the stitching couldn’t tear through the issue would be solved.
As an aluula lei is now said to be lighter than a foil I think this will be a necessary step to keep foil kites having the edge on the market and Would make them suitable and More for fit for purpose of the free ride freestyle market the soul has been aimed and more importantly marketed at. I think it would be a very exciting move for the soul and would be the ultimate fun wing.
Last edited by Ice101 on Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:26 pm

You can always build stronger ,and flysurfer did make large improvements, it's just you can also always crash harder. The only indestructible kites so far to crashing are single skins. Tube kites are easy to repair, until it involves the tubes. Look at adding magnet vents if you crash your kite a lot.

Ice101
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Re: My first sessions with the Flysurfer Soul 12, a short video

Postby Ice101 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:51 pm

I don’t crash it a lot! Far from it, I have 11 years experience. Even the most experienced can have a bad day. I don’t think magnetic vents is the answer some how or flysurfer would have fitted them. In my opinion they are far more advanced than panch I used to have a couple of those for land in days gone.
Last edited by Ice101 on Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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