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Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

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jbrodin
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Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby jbrodin » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:00 am

I know there are severeal posts on the topic, but they did not give me the verdict I need. It seems there is consensus that the tapered long bury splice provides the best breaking strenght, but this technique has the disadvantage of making the lenght unpredictable?

I have made some extensions with locked Brummel, with maybe 3 cm of buried tail. I did not taper all that meticlously. This was made based on a post here and one of the videos from a thread here. I have started to think I should redo them, they should be fine for foiling, but I need some boost-proof lines.

How exactly should a tapered long long bury be made, there are several different recipies out there? How long should the tail be for kite lines

Is the solution a locked Brummel with a tapered long tail? How long?

This link provides pretty good reference for what is what and how to do, but not on which is better and how long to make the tails:

https://www.animatedknots.com/long-bury-splice-knot

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby evan » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:21 am

Locked brummel is the hardest to get the length right. With only a bury you can slide the loop after splicing to the correct length and put a handful of stitches in to set the splice.

With Dyneema of kite line thickness you want to have at least a bury of 100mm. Anything shorter than that and the strength will rely on the locking/stitches as the bury will slip when it is shorter. With a long enough bury the lock/stitches are only there to keep the splice in place when handling the lines unloaded.
30mm bury is so short that you it is comparable with no bury at all, you get maybe 30% breaking strength max just like a knot.

For racing i make a 130mm bury with 20mm loop, for freeride a 280mm bury with 30mm loop. Both with a 20mm taper.
A longer bury makes the lines easier to walk out and less prone to knotting itself, it also releaves the stress at the taper from flapping around.
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Janus (Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:25 am) • 1234567Simon (Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:09 am) • Kitemenn (Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:28 pm) • edt (Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:53 pm)
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1234567Simon
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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby 1234567Simon » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:08 am

Maybe it is Just me and my silly 100% perfect Feeling....

One splice incl. Stitching Takes me aprox 20-30 min ...
Plus measuring the Line length with 5kg weights.....

So in total 4 hours.....
I know Others do it much faster... But actually I am Not sooooooooo slow.

Never again I will splice a complete Set.


In my oppinion the 425 Line from Evan is super good!
A Bit thinner than 401pro, better coating.
His splicing is much better than Standard!
Lines are perfect Same length.....

I also have His 300 Line. Works fantastic....but for me in 20kn Wind I need to pay Attention, because it is Not so easy to handle on the beach. (still way better and Stronger than the 201.... Regarding strengt you have to compare to 301, regarding Diameter to 201 )


This is Just a Personal Feeling.


My recommendation..... Just Order everything ready to go!
Last edited by 1234567Simon on Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kamikuza
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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:47 am

The Brummell just stops the bury working out when the line isn't under load.

So, both.

IIRC the "correct" bury length is 75x line diameter.

https://www.animatedknots.com

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby jbrodin » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:56 am

evan wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:21 am
Locked brummel is the hardest to get the length right. With only a bury you can slide the loop after splicing to the correct length and put a handful of stitches in to set the splice.

With Dyneema of kite line thickness you want to have at least a bury of 100mm. Anything shorter than that and the strength will rely on the locking/stitches as the bury will slip when it is shorter. With a long enough bury the lock/stitches are only there to keep the splice in place when handling the lines unloaded.
30mm bury is so short that you it is comparable with no bury at all, you get maybe 30% breaking strength max just like a knot.

For racing i make a 130mm bury with 20mm loop, for freeride a 280mm bury with 30mm loop. Both with a 20mm taper.
A longer bury makes the lines easier to walk out and less prone to knotting itself, it also releaves the stress at the taper from flapping around.
Thanks!!! Got it. Are you the Evan that sells line sets referred to in the other reply?

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby edt » Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:37 pm

1234567Simon wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:08 am
Maybe it is Just me and my silly 100% perfect Feeling....

One splice incl. Stitching Takes me aprox 20-30 min ...
Plus measuring the Line length with 5kg weights.....

So in total 4 hours.....
I know Others do it much faster... But actually I am Not sooooooooo slow.

Never again I will splice a complete Set.
takes me about 5 minutes per line. I've done about a dozen full sets. My first set may have taken 4 hours like anything it gets easier with practice even if you are a perfectionist. It's fine not to make your own lines, nothing wrong with buying them if you feel like it. It's good that you know how to splice them if you have to.

As for brummel vs simple splice, doesn't matter as others have indicated, use whatever you like.
Last edited by edt on Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby faklord » Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:39 pm

The question should really be “lock stitch or brummel”.
As others have intimated the strength comes from the long bury, in both cases.
The lock stitch or brummel are just a mechanisms to prevent an unloaded bury from shaking loose.
The taper reduces stress concentration and gives some improvement on initial strength but more I importantly reduces the effect of fatigue over time, from flapping lines.

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby jmach » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:59 pm

For a long bury, is it okay or possible to hand stitch kite line?

What about 5mm Dyneema, what type of thread and what kind of stitch (by hand also) for a long bury?

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby rnelias » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:12 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:47 am
The Brummell just stops the bury working out when the line isn't under load.

So, both.

IIRC the "correct" bury length is 75x line diameter.

https://www.animatedknots.com
correct! It locks on itself

https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel-eye-splice-knot

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Re: Kite line splicing - long bury vs locked Brummel

Postby sflinux » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:30 am

For making bridle line, I prefer the zacher knot as you can tune it to length:
https://ericedttaylor.wordpress.com/201 ... -knot-htm/
For kite line I like the long bury. If you are worried about line lengths, just make custom pigtails with a loop on one end and a knot on the other. Tune your pigtails so all lines are equal. If a line snaps, make a new pigtail to tune your lines back to length.


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