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Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

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AdroVempo
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Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby AdroVempo » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:03 am

Hello All,

Need some advice with buying first Board.

Rider Profile: Beginner, 200 lbs.
Wind Conditions: Minnesota Lakes, Average wind (maybe 14-19mph mostly)..lot of you might consider this LightWind.
Water conditions: Since it is lake and we are talking not so high winds, I am guessing we can assume that "chop" in the water is less/negligible. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Kite: 12m Slingshot Rally

So based on this, I was thinking of following options:

Liquid Force Libre (it is a door-stylel; and also almost zero-rocker). Can't decide between 2 available sizes: 150x45 and 160x50.
Liquid Force Overdrive (normal shape with a little bit more rocker than the completely flat Libre). Size I am considering: 148x45.

From what I understood, the only downside of going with door-style boards is the inability to deal with chop. But since I am not talking of those conditions, I was guessing I can ignore it. In that case, if I go with Libre, then 2 questions? :
1. Is 160x50 too much?
2. if yes, and I go with Libre 150x45, is it not almost the same size as the Overdrive 148x45? In that case, should I rather not go with Overdrive so that it can continue to be my go-to board even past progression stage. Since I heard people say width matters more than length.

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby GJibb » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:04 am

I wrote a bunch but it didn’t send right

Overdrive is perfect. Bigger doesn’t always mean better.
I learned on Ocean Rodeo Origin 142/46 and still don’t think I needed one that big (wide) (I’m 220-240).

Don’t get hyped up by what everyone says. Get a board and ride it. You’ll outgrow everything at some point and by then you’ll have a direction to go towards for gear purchases.

You’ll want a bigger kite

AdroVempo
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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby AdroVempo » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:36 am

Thanks GJibb. I will try out both kinds of boards myself before making the decision. But seems like OverDrive will suffice.

But given that you were suggesting a bigger kite: most people (instructors, lot of KF folks, Slingshot customer care themselves) were all suggesting 12m should suffice. So for that, the suggestion was to go with LW boards, which is also why I was wondering whether I need a door-board.

About why the 12m Kite, that has been a big discussion. After lot of talk, finally decided on it. If it is not working at all, the idea is to go for a LW-specific bigger-than-14m kite.

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby badgb21 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:42 pm

AdroVempo wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:03 am
Hello All,

Need some advice with buying first Board.

Rider Profile: Beginner, 200 lbs.
Wind Conditions: Minnesota Lakes, Average wind (maybe 14-19mph mostly)..lot of you might consider this LightWind.
Water conditions: Since it is lake and we are talking not so high winds, I am guessing we can assume that "chop" in the water is less/negligible. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Chop will be short and steep usually in lakes, but it'll be windy by then
Kite: 12m Slingshot Rally
You're gunna need a bigger kite. 200lb inland lakes - need power for light wind, a big board will help but not totally compensate (otherwise they'd never sell big kites)

So based on this, I was thinking of following options:

Liquid Force Libre (it is a door-stylel; and also almost zero-rocker). Can't decide between 2 available sizes: 150x45 and 160x50.
Liquid Force Overdrive (normal shape with a little bit more rocker than the completely flat Libre). Size I am considering: 148x45.

From what I understood, the only downside of going with door-style boards is the inability to deal with chop. But since I am not talking of those conditions, I was guessing I can ignore it. In that case, if I go with Libre, then 2 questions? :
1. Is 160x50 too much? @ 200lbs you could get away with the 150. The 160 may give you a knot earlier, but less manouverability
2. if yes, and I go with Libre 150x45, is it not almost the same size as the Overdrive 148x45? In that case, should I rather not go with Overdrive so that it can continue to be my go-to board even past progression stage. Since I heard people say width matters more than length.
From the LF page the O Drive looks exciting, but very flat bottom, not forgiving. Not sure about the inline inserts - your pads would need to be very adjustable to duck out enough.
A board if you have good young knees, hips and ankles!


Libre appears to be more forgiving and the 150 you could use in some wind.
Try them and see which you like. If you can't tell a difference, I'd get the Libre.


Oh did I mention, you're definitely gunna need a bigger kite ;)

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby FLandOBX » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:16 pm

I agree with prior advice. The LF Overdrive would be my recommendation. The door style boards have limited versatility. They are okay for early learning stage and light wind "lawn-mowing", but you'll quickly outgrow them, IMHO. Once you begin riding faster and transitioning with style, then boosting and doing rolls and spins, you'll want a board with some rocker and less bulk. I think the combination of the Overdrive and your 12m kite will be fine.

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby gilana » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:04 pm

Im going to fly in the face of convention again.

Big boards suck to learn on. They get you planing allright! but kiting is almost never planing, its on the edge.
A 50cm lever is a hell of a thing for the new kiter to edge.

A big board will result in more faceplants during learning, absolutely. I would rather a student fall backwards ass first 10 times than one faceplant.
Forget the obsession with "getting up" that will come automatically.

You will land up going downwind uncontrollably fast on a big board, unable to edge-up and fly the kite low...

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby Matteo V » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:06 pm

gilana wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:04 pm
Im going to fly in the face of convention again.

Big boards suck to learn on. They get you planing allright! but kiting is almost never planing, its on the edge.
A 50cm lever is a hell of a thing for the new kiter to edge.

A big board will result in more faceplants during learning, absolutely. I would rather a student fall backwards ass first 10 times than one faceplant.
Forget the obsession with "getting up" that will come automatically.

You will land up going downwind uncontrollably fast on a big board, unable to edge-up and fly the kite low...
This is good advice if you have high or medium winds that are OCEAN CLEAN and steady. But inland, you absolutely need a door (or just a wide board) to keep up on a plane with only your momentum through the massive lulls. Also, big boards plane quicker and waste less energy getting onto plane. This is the other essential requirement of inland winds that often have 1 second turbulent gusts that you have to make into forward motion quickly.

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby grigorib » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:22 pm

AdroVempo wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:03 am
Hello All,

Need some advice with buying first Board.

Rider Profile: Beginner, 200 lbs.
Wind Conditions: Minnesota Lakes, Average wind (maybe 14-19mph mostly)..lot of you might consider this LightWind.
Water conditions: Since it is lake and we are talking not so high winds, I am guessing we can assume that "chop" in the water is less/negligible. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Kite: 12m Slingshot Rally

So based on this, I was thinking of following options:

Liquid Force Libre (it is a door-stylel; and also almost zero-rocker). Can't decide between 2 available sizes: 150x45 and 160x50.
Liquid Force Overdrive (normal shape with a little bit more rocker than the completely flat Libre). Size I am considering: 148x45.

From what I understood, the only downside of going with door-style boards is the inability to deal with chop. But since I am not talking of those conditions, I was guessing I can ignore it. In that case, if I go with Libre, then 2 questions? :
1. Is 160x50 too much?
2. if yes, and I go with Libre 150x45, is it not almost the same size as the Overdrive 148x45? In that case, should I rather not go with Overdrive so that it can continue to be my go-to board even past progression stage. Since I heard people say width matters more than length.

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Until you get on a foil, the door board with wide tips is an absolute winner for lightwind.

I'm 200 lbs, I started with Spleene 159x45 (after realizing that regular 135x40.5 doesn't do lightwind) and few years down the road upgraded to Flysurfer Door XL 170x50.
I can do any trick I do with that door and because of rocker on the tips it eats chop easily. On a large board the straps are close to the heelside of the board and it makes it easier to edge.

Take the largest door you find and rocker on the tips is a good bonus.
Buy 7-10m extension lines which will get you couple of knots more on the lowend in addition to that door.

However in stronger winds you still would want a regular size board, mine is 137x42 and I love it

Large regular shape boards are for big guys, they certainly do not deliver same lowend as a door.
Last edited by grigorib on Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GJibb
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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby GJibb » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:28 pm

as a first board and a beginner no one knows a damn thing about how things are supposed to feel (controlling board and kite with gusty wind, overpowered or properly powered, edging vs overedging vs not edging as much as they can be, board grip differences between board shape or fins, board flex vs stiff, plus everything else.
Worrying about inland lake chop seems pretty minor compared to learning on washing machine or shore break or current. And how far out into the middle of a lake is a beginner realistically going to go?
And at 200# the board flex is absolutely different to a 150#

Time on the water is the most important. Get a board that mixes getting you out the most often without interfreing learning but factor in how quickly you become proficient and how useful the tool (board) will be when you decide which direction you want to take your riding

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Re: Beginner Board Advice: Door vs Regular Large

Postby badgb21 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:08 pm

For the first time ever....I agree with Matteo!!!!!!!!!!
and he managed it in under 5000 words.
Inland is often very different to coastal trade winds.

Nice one dude :)


Matteo V wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:06 pm
gilana wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:04 pm
Im going to fly in the face of convention again.

Big boards suck to learn on. They get you planing allright! but kiting is almost never planing, its on the edge.
A 50cm lever is a hell of a thing for the new kiter to edge.

A big board will result in more faceplants during learning, absolutely. I would rather a student fall backwards ass first 10 times than one faceplant.
Forget the obsession with "getting up" that will come automatically.

You will land up going downwind uncontrollably fast on a big board, unable to edge-up and fly the kite low...
This is good advice if you have high or medium winds that are OCEAN CLEAN and steady. But inland, you absolutely need a door (or just a wide board) to keep up on a plane with only your momentum through the massive lulls. Also, big boards plane quicker and waste less energy getting onto plane. This is the other essential requirement of inland winds that often have 1 second turbulent gusts that you have to make into forward motion quickly.


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