Maybe I'll get to keep my name after all..

[tautologies]

Foil, I think your numbers are off. No way north sold 60k kites. (?).
Look at the other product lines / brands that are folded in under. In any case sure you can say that direct benefits you, but best proved that foothold and growth kite companies needs presence....its not the resellers per se, but that we choose kites based on what other people ride. I'm guessing once we select a brand most are fairly stable in the next choice. ..so kite brands need people to use the kites on the local beach... ...and right now the best way to do that is schools, established shops etc.. That model works for this industry.

[iriejohn]

All you describe below takes place in a free market. Exactly how would you recommend that this market be 'reformed' and by which mechanisms?

Simply I think they are unnecessary for me and many others.

If you, others and the shops think their existence is necessary, then they should face the free market. If the major brands made their gear available to the general public at the same prices they supply the shops, then their true value can be gauged. If they all survive that then they are needed.

Yes with such arrangements there is problems with support etc, that would need to be worked out. Either customer accepts little to no support for 1/2 to 1/3 the price or buys else where I would guess.

I have no problem with anyone making a living. I have a problem with people collecting what is basically a unwarranted tax. I have a problem with people claiming they are needed when they are not. I have a problem with people lying about their competition or competing business models. I have a problem with having to do the dog and pony show to get a good price.

Toby have you ever bought a new car? This is the pinnacle of reseller existence, enshrined by law and dirty deals.
If the salesmen there didn't have jobs they would be out committing blatant theft.

[Foxi]

Foil, I think your numbers are off. No way north sold 60k kites. (?).

I agree .. taken from a clip on youtube from their Dutone Launch meeting in Tarifa

[Kykeon]

Foilholio,

I'm with you for leaner kite companies!
Especially when it comes to team riders.

But I bet you do not run (or contribute to the business part) of a company with physical goods that operates globally, do you?

Let's leave advertising, promotion and local support, demo aside, purely operational:

If a company goes through distribution, in order to sell say 20M worth kites and other products it needs
A few hundred
accounts, hundreds of shipments, small temporary storage space etc

For direct you break your balls for a single chicken loop that did not get the payment through or did not pass customs. You need an eshop with thousands of accounts, tenths of thousands of shipments, huge storages and an army of people to support all that.
The biggest problem is that this does not scale and you can't benefit from economy of scale.

Probably works (financially) for the size of switch but not for North.

[purdyd]

Simply I think they are unnecessary for me and many others.

If you, others and the shops think their existence is necessary, then they should face the free market. If the major brands made their gear available to the general public at the same prices they supply the shops, then their true value can be gauged. If they all survive that then they are needed.

there isn't a business model in place anywhere that sells to the public at the same price it sells to distributors or retailers

that is because those distributors and retailers incur costs that would otherwise have to be absorbed by the manufacturer

like storing stock, dealing with customers, shipping, returns, having a store front, promotion, etc.

if a manufacturer undercuts the price that a retailer sells for, the retailer will not sell that product

so you see only three models

direct to consumer

direct to consumer at same price as retailer

only through a retailer

i think direct to consumer only works if a small portion of the sales for kiteboarding is using that model

even best kiteboarding which started out direct sales move to include retailers because retailers do perform a function

now sponsored riders and fancy promotion videos? I guess the market can vote with their dollars if those things are worth paying for.

[FLandOBX]

now sponsored riders and fancy promotion videos? I guess the market can vote with their dollars if those things are worth paying for.

If I ran a kite company, I don't think I'd care as much about sponsored riders as how many kite schools are using my product. If a busy school is teaching lessons with my kite, I feel fairly confident that their students are going to buy my product. Then, assuming the product is good, brand loyalty will keep those customers coming back for more. I'd expect fewer customers buying simply because some pro rider uses my kites.

[Toby]

now sponsored riders and fancy promotion videos? I guess the market can vote with their dollars if those things are worth paying for.

If I ran a kite company, I don't think I'd care as much about sponsored riders as how many kite schools are using my product. If a busy school is teaching lessons with my kite, I feel fairly confident that their students are going to buy my product. Then, assuming the product is good, brand loyalty will keep those customers coming back for more. I'd expect fewer customers buying simply because some pro rider uses my kites.

that's why I doubted Best will ever succeed with its "Ride for us" marketing.

IMO a rider like Lewis Crathern is more worth than Aaron Hadlow. One part is performance, a bigger part is being "out" there with camps, schools, universities etc.

[sarc]

Foil, I think your numbers are off. No way north sold 60k kites. (?).

I agree .. taken from a clip on youtube from their Dutone Launch meeting in Tarifa

DFA67568-BB27-41B6-A6B9-6C43EF4031C4.jpeg

You can see that the Rebel WAS (emphasis on WAS) the most sold kite... until they made it 4 lines I guess???
Anyways Neo is a great kite.

[Kykeon]

Foil, I think your numbers are off. No way north sold 60k kites. (?).

I agree .. taken from a clip on youtube from their Dutone Launch meeting in Tarifa

DFA67568-BB27-41B6-A6B9-6C43EF4031C4.jpeg

Do they have the 2020 sales as well? Or is it too early?

[Kitemenn]

now sponsored riders and fancy promotion videos? I guess the market can vote with their dollars if those things are worth paying for.

If I ran a kite company, I don't think I'd care as much about sponsored riders as how many kite schools are using my product. If a busy school is teaching lessons with my kite, I feel fairly confident that their students are going to buy my product. Then, assuming the product is good, brand loyalty will keep those customers coming back for more. I'd expect fewer customers buying simply because some pro rider uses my kites.

that's why I doubted Best will ever succeed with its "Ride for us" marketing.

IMO a rider like Lewis Crathern is more worth than Aaron Hadlow. One part is performance, a bigger part is being "out" there with camps, schools, universities etc.

Yeah also think Lewis is great! Much more out there and actually trying to help others instead of only promoting themselves. Good Pro riders can really help your brand...also like Kevin Langeree who's doing a great job for Naish if you ask me!