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Fatality in France

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kite_hh
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Re: Fatality in France

Postby kite_hh » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:59 am

evan wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:01 am
In short he died because his Fireball got unclipped during launch and his short leash (attached to his back) pulled on one power line causing a kiteloop.
I read the dutch thread and by looking at the picture I can tell his leash was really short. However, how would this lead to a power line being pulled? And how would a pull on the power lines induce a kiteloop? Wouldn't a pull on one power line lead to a sort of flagging out? Akin to the 4-line flag out (Cabrinha 1x, etc.)? Could you elaborate a little more so I can understand? Thanks.

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby evan » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:04 pm

kite_hh wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:59 am
evan wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:01 am
In short he died because his Fireball got unclipped during launch and his short leash (attached to his back) pulled on one power line causing a kiteloop.
I read the dutch thread and by looking at the picture I can tell his leash was really short. However, how would this lead to a power line being pulled? And how would a pull on the power lines induce a kiteloop? Wouldn't a pull on one power line lead to a sort of flagging out? Akin to the 4-line flag out (Cabrinha 1x, etc.)? Could you elaborate a little more so I can understand? Thanks.
Unequal power lines result in a kite pulling hard to one side. The more difference, the harder the turn. Until de difference become so great (a few meters or more) the kite flags out totally. The way his leash was attached results in maybe 30cm pull on 1 power line when he was unhooked. Enough to induce a wide loop that you can't correct with steering.

It is not that your power is killed as soon as you flagout only 10cm on 1 power line.
Last edited by evan on Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby downunder » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:07 pm

RIP

I am a strong believer in accidents. Accidents are not preventable, no matter what.

If people think unhooked launch is way more safe, I question this with a landing and everything in between. I question every single piece of equipment as well. EVERY PIECE.

None of equipment is here to prevent unpreventable. If with peace with that, fine. If not, kiting is not for you. Same with any other sport or life. If never ever happened to one, one was just lucky. Or unlucky. Think Schumacher....

Sharp knife can hurt. Don't blame the knife. Or a gun either. Or a hook/chicken loop...It's almost funny how some people are trying to find something to blame, or someone. Or learn from someones mistakes. Right.

I wish it's working that way but it's not. Someone sent me an long email about snap shackle, and why it's not good. Lot of bollocks. Why? I kite in a lagoon, dead on shore all the time. Yep, dead on shore in 30-100cm of water for 90% of time.

Yet, someone is trying to convince me that I'll drown, when my kite will flag on a tree.

People are taking safety way to seriously, and then break a hip in the bathroom, or hit a head.

Peace and condolences to family and friends.

D.
Last edited by downunder on Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kite_hh
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Re: Fatality in France

Postby kite_hh » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:17 pm

Aahh. Now I get it. His leash was so short that it started the flagging out process when he was (accidentally) unhooked and held on to his bar with arms long.
Due to single frontline safety, this initiated a loop he was not able to steer against. Letting go of the bar would have engaged safety, but holding on made things worse.
Thanks for the explanation. I too have a short leash, but it is not that short and has never let to any trouble, even unhooked with arms long. Nevertheless I will check if this could possibly get me into trouble. Thanks for elaborating!

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby downunder » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 pm

The short leash or any leash can't prevent the bar end getting stuck in a hook...

And that is not preventable no matter what.

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby evan » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:32 pm

kite_hh wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:17 pm
Aahh. Now I get it. His leash was so short that it started the flagging out process when he was (accidentally) unhooked and held on to his bar with arms long.
Due to single frontline safety, this initiated a loop he was not able to steer against. Letting go of the bar would have engaged safety, but holding on made things worse.
Thanks for the explanation. I too have a short leash, but it is not that short and has never let to any trouble, even unhooked with arms long. Nevertheless I will check if this could possibly get me into trouble. Thanks for elaborating!
Sad, but true.

Always be prepared to let go as soon as you notice someting is off. Holding on to your gear and/or a moment of doubt can be fatal in nuking conditions.

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby tomtom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:13 pm

downunder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 pm
The short leash or any leash can't prevent the bar end getting stuck in a hook...

And that is not preventable no matter what.
it can be prevented by not using spreader bar hook...

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby iriejohn » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:30 pm

tomtom wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:13 pm
downunder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 pm
The short leash or any leash can't prevent the bar end getting stuck in a hook...

And that is not preventable no matter what.
it can be prevented by not using spreader bar hook...
This ^^^

I do not use a hook.

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby grigorib » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:47 pm

evan wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:01 am
edt wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:20 pm
I don't like raising hands in any way. Just throw the chicken loop away.
Change that to unintentional unhooking: http://www.kitehigh.nl/forum/index.php?topic=54463.0

We just had the friend of a deceased Dutch experienced rider post his story of what happened in Brazil a few months ago. In short he died because his Fireball got unclipped during launch and his short leash (attached to his back) pulled on one power line causing a kiteloop. He got janked onto his head and died a week later in the hospital.

Letting the bar go or clipping the leash on the front of his harness would probably resulted in a different outcome.
Attaching short leash to the back of the harness?
Attaching any leash to the back (unless you do handlepasses)?
Not letting the bar go?
Not trying to grab the chickenloop and let the bar go?
Using complicated Fireball setup instead of chickenloop and a hook?

People learn wrong things, don’t practice/observe right things and that does bring them closer to their Darwin Award.

And I’d call Cabrinha someone liable here because they introduced setup which is more complicated and is less safe - doesn’t allow to simply get the loop under the hook but instead demands fingering the hook to “hook in”.
I’ve been making fun of fireball calling it a sеx toy but I hope whoever still smokes that stuff consider safety and usability.
iriejohn wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:30 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:13 pm
downunder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 pm
The short leash or any leash can't prevent the bar end getting stuck in a hook...

And that is not preventable no matter what.
it can be prevented by not using spreader bar hook...
This ^^^

I do not use a hook.
Jumping on a rope goes wrong more often and is less precise. Foiling on a rope is magic though.

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Re: Fatality in France

Postby tomtom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:36 pm

yea, but you can use fixed setup /no slider/. Whole loop in to hook is wrong idea if you arent unhooking. But too far OT. My fault.
RIP.


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