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Light wind foil kite for foiling

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TomW
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Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby TomW » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:17 pm

Ok, last mid season I bought a used Flysurfer Sonic 2 13m to complement my Hyperlink 9m UL.
I've flown it 10 times and it's a good kite in wind range compared to the Hyperlink. I've had some great light wind sessions on it on a big hydrofoiling wing.

But now I'm wondering if there is a less extreme ( less racy) foil kite that I could pick up used and it would be easier to handle.
Mainly my only issue is that it's extremely slow to turn. I'm on 20m lines and 60cm bar.

I'm looking to switch out used for used...

Mossy 757
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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:41 pm

I'm not kidding at all when I say get a used R1V2. I know we had some conversation in the R1V3 thread, but hear me out...

I learned how to kite on a 2013 12m Cabrinha Switchblade. No complaints with that kite other than it has a narrow wind range because of its weight (5 struts, beefy beginner friendly construction).

I sold that and got a Naish Pivot 12m, also a great kite but when I got into hydrofoiling it was totally useless because of the lack of depower and its weight relative to the wind range where I wanted to use it.

I then picked up a brand new 9m Cabrinha Velocity, which I still have and love to use in really high wind conditions (because foil kites SUCK to handle in high winds, bridles tangle, pulleys get looped over themselves, etc.)

I've also had 2 Elf 15m kites, one Joker 5 and a Joker 7. The Joker 5 was heavily used and porous, made it hard to power up and it instantly sank as soon as it touched the water. The Joker 7 is...a handful.

I now have a Sonic2 11m and an R1V2 15m (brand new) as my two foil kites, in addition to the Velocity. Out of the 3, I'd say the R1V2 is the most enjoyable to fly. I turns just a tiny bit slower than the 11m Sonic2 and has a LOT more hang time (also felt like it went higher with less technique, but that's a totally unscientific statement). It's as easy to fly at the edge of the window as an inflatable, and if you know how to handle a foil kite, even really screwing stuff up is pretty recoverable so long as you're not massively underpowered. I've flown the Sonic2 15m for a little bit and for sure it's an easy kite to fly with stable behavior, but it's nowhere near the performance category of the R1V2 and is heavier, which makes a difference for the lightest sessions.

I know it sounds crazy to recommend one of the top race kites given you explicitly said you don't want one, but compared to the Sonic2, I think you'll be impressed by its performance and behavior, and it's not in a "razor's edge" kind of way you might expect with race equipment, its greatest attribute is its ease of use and good behavior in the air.

A lot of people also stand behind the Soul, but I have a friend who has ridden exclusively Flysurfer foil kites for the last 5 years and has flown almost every size of every kite they've made; he has decided to hang onto his 15m and 18m Speed5's because he claims they turn faster and redirect better than the large sizes of the Soul. His 12m and below are Souls, his 15/18 are Speed5. In that sense, I wouldn't go pick up a Speed5 because it's likely you'll pay about the same as you'd pay for a lightly used R1V2 in 15m or 17m sizes given that the racers with money are now unloading their V2's for cheap to get the V3's. The availability of quality large kites on the used market to me is a selling point for the R1V2 versus the Speed5.


I have no exposure to kites like the Pulsion or Pansh, but given that I've never met anyone in person who used one I'm inclined to ignore them pending their appearance on hydrofoil race results...

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby cwood » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:57 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:41 pm
I'm not kidding at all when I say get a used R1V2. I know we had some conversation in the R1V3 thread, but hear me out...

I learned how to kite on a 2013 12m Cabrinha Switchblade. No complaints with that kite other than it has a narrow wind range because of its weight (5 struts, beefy beginner friendly construction).

I sold that and got a Naish Pivot 12m, also a great kite but when I got into hydrofoiling it was totally useless because of the lack of depower and its weight relative to the wind range where I wanted to use it.

I then picked up a brand new 9m Cabrinha Velocity, which I still have and love to use in really high wind conditions (because foil kites SUCK to handle in high winds, bridles tangle, pulleys get looped over themselves, etc.)

I've also had 2 Elf 15m kites, one Joker 5 and a Joker 7. The Joker 5 was heavily used and porous, made it hard to power up and it instantly sank as soon as it touched the water. The Joker 7 is...a handful.

I now have a Sonic2 11m and an R1V2 15m (brand new) as my two foil kites, in addition to the Velocity. Out of the 3, I'd say the R1V2 is the most enjoyable to fly. I turns just a tiny bit slower than the 11m Sonic2 and has a LOT more hang time (also felt like it went higher with less technique, but that's a totally unscientific statement). It's as easy to fly at the edge of the window as an inflatable, and if you know how to handle a foil kite, even really screwing stuff up is pretty recoverable so long as you're not massively underpowered. I've flown the Sonic2 15m for a little bit and for sure it's an easy kite to fly with stable behavior, but it's nowhere near the performance category of the R1V2 and is heavier, which makes a difference for the lightest sessions.

I know it sounds crazy to recommend one of the top race kites given you explicitly said you don't want one, but compared to the Sonic2, I think you'll be impressed by its performance and behavior, and it's not in a "razor's edge" kind of way you might expect with race equipment, its greatest attribute is its ease of use and good behavior in the air.

A lot of people also stand behind the Soul, but I have a friend who has ridden exclusively Flysurfer foil kites for the last 5 years and has flown almost every size of every kite they've made; he has decided to hang onto his 15m and 18m Speed5's because he claims they turn faster and redirect better than the large sizes of the Soul. His 12m and below are Souls, his 15/18 are Speed5. In that sense, I wouldn't go pick up a Speed5 because it's likely you'll pay about the same as you'd pay for a lightly used R1V2 in 15m or 17m sizes given that the racers with money are now unloading their V2's for cheap to get the V3's. The availability of quality large kites on the used market to me is a selling point for the R1V2 versus the Speed5.


I have no exposure to kites like the Pulsion or Pansh, but given that I've never met anyone in person who used one I'm inclined to ignore them pending their appearance on hydrofoil race results...
I had a full speed5 quiver and while they are great on a TT, I cannot recommend them for foiling....too heavy on the low end of their wind ranges....fall back in the window and you are done.

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:23 pm

cwood wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:57 pm
I had a full speed5 quiver and while they are great on a TT, I cannot recommend them for foiling....too heavy on the low end of their wind ranges....fall back in the window and you are done.
Fair point, this individual primarily rides twin tip, I was simply stating that the Soul is not necessarily a clear choice for a large, light wind kite despite its ease of use. I haven't flown them so my opinion is entirely based on the experience of others who ride at my local spot.

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby cwood » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:29 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:23 pm
cwood wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:57 pm
I had a full speed5 quiver and while they are great on a TT, I cannot recommend them for foiling....too heavy on the low end of their wind ranges....fall back in the window and you are done.
Fair point, this individual primarily rides twin tip, I was simply stating that the Soul is not necessarily a clear choice for a large, light wind kite despite its ease of use. I haven't flown them so my opinion is entirely based on the experience of others who ride at my local spot.
Sorry, foil on the brain. Speed5 was great....but nobody has ever complained about the R1V2's local to us either....although don't very often see them with TT's. The only dig I would make is that I do see frequent swims with them if they are on the water....drink fast, subject to bow tie etc. Souls rule in this area.

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby slowboat » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:33 pm

You should consider ConceptAir Pulsion 12. Very easy to use and sits at zenith in the lightest winds (probably the best currently).

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jakemoore
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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby jakemoore » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:11 pm

https://www.blackbox-sailing.de/surfen- ... 00-0161.BL

Before spending any money on kites, I would strongly consider adding a 30 meter like be set made with ultra thin SK 99. I used DC pro 161 for the rear lines (350 lbs test) and larger for the fronts. Rear line sag sucks turning performance out of a kite especially in light wind and long lines on a low bar pressure foil kite. Obviously no jumping with this bar.

I suspect you will be quite pleased with the low end of your 9 ultralight on long lines. Also just increasing the wind window size may help the Sonic turning if you are just taking it out in the lightest winds. it will still be slower, but plenty of time to complete a loop for waterstart on long lines.

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby tomtom » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:51 pm

Kitech FRS 12 or FS Soul 12. Both are faster and much more user friendly than Sonic 2 11 which i know first hand. FRS is more fun to fly better bar feedback more tube like depower faster turning.
Soul is faster in flying through window about 5-10 % more power and performance /L/D/. Both much better water restart than ANY kite - foil or LEI. For me FRS is better suited but they are both fantastic. Soul is just marginally slower than sonic /zipping and boosting/ - FRS is more freeride - so it depends. And you definitely need no bigger than 12 with onda.

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby tomtom » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:58 pm

And before you buy chrono or r1 - they are in same category than sonic performance and AR wise - so turning radius will be similar. You cannot beat physic here. So if you want to stay with ozone. /which is also fantastic brand/ try hyperlink or maybe hyperlink V2 - if you want more userfrienly /faster turning/ kite. Brand emotion aside. :)

disclaimer - i did not tried or know Chrono V3 - so i dont know about it
Last edited by tomtom on Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Light wind foil kite for foiling

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:59 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:17 pm
Ok, last mid season I bought a used Flysurfer Sonic 2 13m to complement my Hyperlink 9m UL.
I've flown it 10 times and it's a good kite in wind range compared to the Hyperlink. I've had some great light wind sessions on it on a big hydrofoiling wing.

But now I'm wondering if there is a less extreme ( less racy) foil kite that I could pick up used and it would be easier to handle.
Mainly my only issue is that it's extremely slow to turn. I'm on 20m lines and 60cm bar.

I'm looking to switch out used for used...
First off, have you done a bar check to make sure your lines are all equal length when trimmed for full power with the bar sheeted in? I wouldn't say that the Sonic2 is a slow turning kite, it just turns differently. There is a slight delay which takes time to get use to the timing but it isn't as active as the Soul. A reason why I wouldn't recommend the R1 even though it's been reported easier than the Sonic to handle, the relaunch is quite poor. When you are at the very low end winds, that's going to be really important. If you can find a used Soul, that would be a good choice. Also someone suggested a Pulsion which would be another good choice but I'm unsure how good the relaunch is. I've spent the last couple months down in Miami and the local guys there are really big on the Kitechs which look like another good choice. Only problem is the wait time can be a little longer to get but they're pretty good priced even new. Also they are suppose to be starting to build them in the same cloth as the Soul. Matrixx has a new freeride foil out as well which looks nice but again the relaunch is going to suffer.

What lines are you on with the Sonic2 13m? Since you have a big hydrofoil wing, you really don't need the stock line length. Before you switch kites out, I recommend playing around with shorter lines starting around like 15m. This will speed up the kite and make it react faster. It's easy to do yourself, there's some good how-to's on youtube on how to splice them.


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