Jan:) wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am
The lighter the board, the less it will bounce around in chop.
My interpretation of the situation, and experience from using lightweight "egshell" boards that I trashed in one season, is the opposite in chop. One of the heaviest boards on the market, that I use almost exclusively now, is the best chop eater I have ever ridden. Windsurfing with "glass" boards vs lightweight epoxy boards yeilds the same conclusion. Given that prone surfing happens without sideways pull and at speeds much lower, I believe my experience there is not relevant. Physics also is against the interpretation that lighter weight is better in rougher conditions.
When you run a heavier object through waves, there is more energy in that heavier object to continue its path in a straight line than in a lighter one. Put plainly, the lighter one gets bounced around more and slows down quicker.
Jan:) wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am
If you lose contact to your board in chop, you need to work on your technique or mount straps.....
I can ride a lightweight board without straps in chop without any issues.
What is going on with your experience here is that you are depowering the kite more, going slower through choppy hectic conditions, and using a "wave kite" to minimize the pull you get from the kite on and off the wave in order to simulate the limitations of prone surfing. That is ok, plenty of fun, a noble pursuit, and likely just what you want to do. But it is not the maximum performance you can get out of the kite/rider/board system.
Jan:) wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am
This
(Matteo V's) argument is completely flawed.
To say "performance ... is maximized", you need to set a scale/goal.
If your goal is to go fast, that is scale is speed, you want to take a hydrofoil.
I am unsure of what the world speed record with a kite is for a hydrofoil. I also do not consider a hydrofoil wave surfing capable except in special conditions. Swell, is fun with my hydrofoil, and breaking waves are fun too so long as the waves are breaking in deep enough water. But this is getting off topic as kite hydrofoils do not surf, nor do they closely simulate prone surfing. They are demonstrably a incomparable device to a planing hull that is a prone surfboard or a kitesurfboard. Given that the strapless crowd is focused on prone surfing simulation purity, there is simply no comparison. This line of thought would make a great new topic, and I would be willing to debate this under a new thread.
But thank you for calling me out on this and giving me the opportunity to clarify my statements.
By speed, I mean ultimate speed into a choppy/unorganized section, inside, outside or on the wave face. There is no debate that you can go faster (kph, mph, m/s, or any other measure of ultimate speed) with straps when the waters surface is randomly chopped up.
By speed I also mean acceleration. Straps allow acceleration (total force in newtons, pounds, etc...) beyond the body weight of the rider. Strapless does not, hence the existence of wave kites to combat this unavoidable problem in strapless kitesurfing (super sticky wax is often used to help, but strangely not considered a connection to the board). Given that the kite's pull ALWAYS has a vertical component to it since it is ALWAYS above the horizon, the maximum force exerted by the kite will pull the rider off the board if great care is not taken by the rider to limit the kite's pull. That limitation is not present when strapped as a upward force in excess of the riders weight does not pull the kiter off of a strapped board.
Jan:) wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am
If your goal is to jump high, so scale is height, you want to take twintip with a high performance kite.
By jumping, I mean the ability to jump instantaneously, without a pre-planned setup and hangtime limitation. Jumping strapless is fun, as it is a challenge. You can also grab the board to stay up for a bit longer. But a strapped board can be "chop hopped" with no intention to use the kite for lift, then mid hop you can decide to include the kite's lift to keep you up. That is not possible without a planning and setup process when strapless.
Also, when going out through the break in sideshore conditions, you can jump the incoming wave in front of you, and choose to come down on the face of the next wave behind if it looks good from the air - but only if you are strapped, or if you pull off an amazing board grab strapless. But even if you do pull off that amazing board grab strapless, you would need to do that for every incoming wave that is obscuring the wave behind it. And that is where you are stuck setting up something strapless every single time, to express the end result on a very rare occasion. So again, straps allow "on the fly - mid air" decisions.
Straps allow more options mid jump, or even to initiate a jump with zero planning. Even a sudden gust and subsequent unintentional lift can be turned into a fun landing. In that same situation strapless......well you are swimming back to your board. And that is where wave kites try to help a bit for the strapless rider.
Jan:) wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am
If these are your goals and you are riding a strapped surfboard with a wavekite, then you are pretty much using the worst possible equipment.
Wave kites make great beginner kites and allow strapless kiters to simulate prone surfing within the limitations of prone surfing. Good wave kites exhibit very little lift, drift with very little pull, and and good steering reaction with almost slack lines. There is nothing wrong with that approach. It is simply the feeling that kitesurfer wishes to pursue. I think it is great if you like that and I like to even watch that almost as much as I like to watch a good prone surfer ripping up a wave that he waited for in the lineup for 30 minutes. But it is a limitation nonetheless. And the goal of wave kite design which IS "very little lift, drift with very little pull, and and good steering reaction with almost slack lines", gives absolute confirmation of this. It is limiting the lift, pull, and allowing steering without line tension. A wave kite is an engine with a governor. And that governor is needed to simulate prone surfing while kitesurfing.
Jan:) wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am
My goal is to maximize my fun on the water.
Performance of the "kite/rider/board" system is maximized, when I get off the water most stoked.
You are correct in this statement and this is irrefutable. I have no problem with that. I appreciate your post pointing out the lack of clarity in my post, along with the chance to correct it. My goal is to clearly lay out the "reality" vs the "hype" surrounding strapless. I do not want to ruin anyone's fun. If anything, it seems that debate tends to make current/longtime strapless riders more set in their mentality regarding the superiority/need of strapless kitesurfing. Given the investment of time in those beliefs, doubling down is understandable. I used to even fanatically believed the way they do. But by good luck, and good management, I was able to break free of my own hyped up strapless mentality. And hopefully, I can present the reality to those who approached kitesurfing with the same incomplete picture that I approached it with. My goal is to just present a way (learn strapped jibe first) to not get trapped in a limitation, if that limitation is not truly more fun for them.