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Is strapless overrated?

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Slappysan
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Slappysan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:52 pm

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Slappysan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:55 pm

MatteoV wrote: The gist of my story was that I hated the LF KiteFish at first and thought it was inferior. But in the end, I came to push it beyond what anything but a custom reinforced strapped kitesurfing board could do (and withstand) for a 100kg rider


Hey Matteo, I'd be interested to hear what you thought of the Ocean Rodeo Duke after giving it a try. I think it would really suit your riding style.

Like the LF Fish the OR Duke isn't a real surfboard, but it is a lot of fun to ride with lots of kite power strapped or not.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:25 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:55 pm
MatteoV wrote: The gist of my story was that I hated the LF KiteFish at first and thought it was inferior. But in the end, I came to push it beyond what anything but a custom reinforced strapped kitesurfing board could do (and withstand) for a 100kg rider


Hey Matteo, I'd be interested to hear what you thought of the Ocean Rodeo Duke after giving it a try. I think it would really suit your riding style.

Like the LF Fish the OR Duke isn't a real surfboard, but it is a lot of fun to ride with lots of kite power strapped or not.


Hope to see you out on the coast this summer. I'm always up for trying a replacement for the kitefish. If I get a chance to demo one, I will let you know, though that won't likely be for a while. Lots of snow here.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby PullStrings » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:26 pm

Unrelated to topic.. but necessary for those of us who really don't give a dam anymore about strapless vs strapped rating... and need a laugh :jump:

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby tomtom » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:46 pm

As some wise man say. Loosely trasnlated from non english. People dont seek for truth. People want to have a truth. We have opinion. Then we filter fact to support that opinion. Thats how our minds work. Its very hard to see behind that but also very liberating. So Mateo. I value and respect your opinion. But its just that - opinion. Just like mine... Its ok to disagreee.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby tmcfarla » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:55 am

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:52 pm
tmcfarla wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:31 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying YOU can’t properly surf with footstraps on- I’m just saying that I can’t.
Your observation is both wrong and right.

Strapped (again on a board under 6'-0" or 6'-4" on a gun) does not seek to "properly" surf - though you could. By the context of your statement, you definitely are saying that prone surfing and it's limitations constitute the "proper" way to surf. Thus your are limiting yourself before you even start to talk about the straps. A pretty good description of this is that you have a self imposed handicap.
I think you misunderstood what I mean. It isn’t that I go into a wave thinking that I want to look like a prone surfer, it is that I go into a wave imagining the lines I want to carve on the way down, and I am simply unable to carve those lines without moving my feet around- stomp on the tail then throw my weight up to the nose of the board, then back to the middle, etc. I would be thrilled if someone would invent a footstrap that would allow me to make the movements I want to make. No one has invented such a footstrap yet.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Seabizzle » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:51 am

I have seen a few posts and articles like this ( referring to the original post) where it seems like the author is a little butt hurt because they feel like they are ripping but because they ride strapped they don't get the recognition they feel they deserve.

The truth is that as a whole the kitesurfing world does not care about strapped surfboard riding. I think the main reason for this is the most elite athletes in any sport will always push the most skilled and difficult aspects of the sport. When it comes to wave kiting competitions strapless riders would be scored higher than strapped riders and the sport then evolved to the point where a rider can no longer be competitive on the world stage if they are riding with straps. The trickle down effect of this is that the everyday rider wants to emulate their heroes resulting in strapless riding becoming the most prevalent form of wave riding.

Whether or not strapless is the best for a given rider on a given day comes down to a bunch of different factors. Every kiter has to work out their own way of finding what is best for them.

For myself I have ridden surfboards 100% strapless for a long time, then when I got into foiling I started strapped and it wasn't until I took the straps off that foiling really clicked for me. Now I want to get into boosting on the foil and I will have to put the straps back on! So I guess it's all just a matter of finding your own way.

As far as people having an attitude about strapped/strapless or doing something just because it looks cool all I can say is that there are a lot of douchebags in the world just try to ignore/avoid them
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Matteo V
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:54 am

tmcfarla wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:55 am
....and I am simply unable to carve those lines without moving my feet around- stomp on the tail then throw my weight up to the nose of the board, then back to the middle, etc. I would be thrilled if someone would invent a footstrap that would allow me to make the movements I want to make. No one has invented such a footstrap yet.
Foot straps do allow you to stomp the tail, and weight up the nose, without having to move your feet! If you have not discovered this, you are most definitely kiting with a "how do I prone surf with a kite" mentality.. When I discovered this, it opened up a whole new world to me.

To weight the nose, pull up on your rear leg while weighting your front foot.

To weight the tail, pull up on your front leg and shift your weight back

To weight either rail, be sure to have upward tension on the strap with the top of your foot, and bury either your toes, or heels into the deck.

You just need to get beyond thinking you can only put downward pressure on your feet. With straps, you can pull up, push sideways, and twist (a moment) one foot or both. And all of this happens instantly, without first planning, shifting your weight, then moving a foot, then re-weighting that foot. Your movements in straps can become almost 100% instantaneous reaction, instead of a chopped up sequence that you must reverse with as many steps as you went into it with.
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:59 am

Seabizzle wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:51 am
I have seen a few posts and articles like this ( referring to the original post) where it seems like the author is a little butt hurt because they feel like they are ripping but because they ride strapped they don't get the recognition they feel they deserve.
Again, strapless riders deserve the recognition they get as they are operating at the maximum performance with a self imposed handicap. There is no way I will ignore the skill that it takes when deliberately restricting your capabilities. Strapless pros ride like they are the very top level prone surfers, and I admire that almost as much as I admire prone surfing pros.

Want to see or do something more than just simulating prone surfing - use straps and figure them out.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:17 am

First off, thanks jumpy for not avoiding the direct challenge. And so......
jumptheshark wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 pm
Your opinion of what is and isn't performance is not evidence. It's opinion. You state it as fact, when its far from it........ Dogma.
Evidence for performance:
1. Going faster is quantifiable in measured speed for which strapped absolutely beats strapless
2. Handling chop better is quantifiable with how far and at what top speed you can enter, and continue through chop - Do you actually think you can handle chop better, at a higher speed while strapless on the same board?
3. Aerial maneuvers strapped can be done "on the fly" and changed mid execution while strapped by almost any level of kiter attempting those maneuvers, whereas the same or similar maneuvers strapless must be pre-planned and cannot be changed mid execution by almost any skill level.

Go ahead and try to debunk the above 3 pieces of evidence that strapped allows more performance. If you think anyone of the above is just an opinion, tell us why you think so and present your evidence.



jumptheshark wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 pm
You dispute the numbers? I assure you they stand up. The vast majority of high end freestyle is done in boots, just as the vast majority of top wave riding strapless. The numbers are what they are....fact not dogma.
I think you may have an issue with definitions.

Fashion and "hype" are typically referred to as what everyone is doing or aspiring to do. So lets say that most people wear bluejeans this year. Are bluejeans superior? No it is just fashion.

Next year, when everyone switches to khakis, does that mean that khakis are suddenly superior? No they are just in fashion.

What most people are doing is more strongly correlated to fashion and hype, vs what is quantifiable as better. And getting to your usage of "dogma"..... well you need to look that one up to. Should you not have the time, let me just state that going against "dogma" is going against the accepted norm, trend, or just being outside of the mainstream narrative. Given my experience of operating under that "dogma", embracing it as the truth, then questioning it, and moving past it, I no longer subscribe to that which is as you said "These things just are." Again, your statement there is nearly exactly the definition of dogma. So please present evidence, reason or logic, to back up your assertions. If you don't, you are actually criticizing yourself with your own talking points.

Should you question my assertions, evidence, reasoning or logic, please try to specify what you are questioning, followed by your own evidence, and reasoning or logic.


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