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Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

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NorwayIsCold
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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby NorwayIsCold » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:00 pm

Have tried all kites from North/Duotone and Core XR5 from the kites you have mentioned.

First of all, all of kites can jump and can loop these days. There are differences between them and you are spot on them in your analysis. It comes down to what kind of feel you like. Dice and Evo feel completely different. Dice is like driving a stiffer suspension car (Porsche) - it is agile and precise and most important for me is fun to fly.
Evo is mellow. It doesn’t give you as much feedback as Dice. It is super solid in the air though and it will not jerk you on every gust. If you live in are with very gusty winds then that should be a big factor to consider.
Both of these kites will feel more reactive compared to your current Neos.
Core kites have a different overall feeling to all of them compared to North. Their canopy is super stiff and that is what you feel on the bar. XR is like a rebel in terms of jumping - get speed, redirect kite and sheet in. Not so engaging to loop it..
I would suggest to read wetestkites reviews on all of these kites that you mentioned - they are quite spot on on their reviews.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby nothing2seehere » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:24 pm

Out of interest, whats wrong with your Neos?

I haven't tried the latest versions, but the '14-'17 Neos jumped pretty high. The loops aren't powerful but thats not a problem when learning the timing. They are poor in terms of hang time so you need to be a bit more precise with your timing for soft landings but otherwise they make a decent freeride kite - and a really top quality wave kite. I'd be surprised if the formula has changed that much that they are no longer decent freeride kites.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby Exal » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:34 pm

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I am having a look around for test events that I could join. Seems like the logical choice will be the evo and if that one does not feel right the enduro. On the other hand the more playful choice would be the dice/gts. Will report back in a few months which one it is and what size I went for.
nothing2seehere wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:24 pm
Out of interest, whats wrong with your Neos?

I haven't tried the latest versions, but the '14-'17 Neos jumped pretty high. The loops aren't powerful but thats not a problem when learning the timing. They are poor in terms of hang time so you need to be a bit more precise with your timing for soft landings but otherwise they make a decent freeride kite - and a really top quality wave kite. I'd be surprised if the formula has changed that much that they are no longer decent freeride kites.
There is this guy called Erik Blokker, I watched this video and thought that is the coolest s*** ever! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWuA6d_Myws he has more stuff on his youtube and instagram. That got me thinking that I might need another kind of kite to get into that.
While I was in cape town for 2 weeks I couldn't find one single person looping a rebel or a neo. Didn't even see another guy beside me trying to jump around on a neo. I saw 2 guys riding rebels and they all just went up there and had much more hangtime than every other guy jumping, based on the distance they traveled until landing. Only really good riders had the enduro, I saw 2 guys looping that kite like crazy. The Evo and Dice i could see a lot, rider skill varied more and it gave me a good idea about the kite.

Also while beeing there I tried riding the Neo more on the upper range of its wind range and it did not feel good. I was on the 10m, around 18-20 knots constant with gusts up to 23/26 knots and I could hold my edge but the big problem were the gusts. I was riding on the hard setting for bar pressure, prefer that one a lot since I can feel where the kite is without looking, and my arms are not weak, I can do around 12 pull ups in one set but it ripped the bar out of my hands twice with gusts. Despite my lack of experience and no comparison to other kites I thought there must be something better for me. Maybe I am just a wuzz or the neo is not for me in that regard. Zero complaints about the neo except that riding it lit up felt really bad, the guys where I bougth the kite from told me that it would be normal to switch to smaller sizes faster on the neo since it is such a grunty kite.

Another thing is that it is a shared quiver, we usually don't get problems since we have 30kg between us but for my lit up riding, boosting and getting into loops adventure we will. Since I would like to be on the same size for jumping that my brother wants to use on this TT/directional. And I really like the idea of having at least this 8 or 9m kite that feels great lit up, just for that purpose when the wind is a bit light and I can jump 1,5 meters I can practice the loops and when the wind is on I can train big airs with landing loops and eventually progress towards 7 meter high up loops with a landing loop.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby CALencioni » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:43 pm

Honest question, what’s wrong with learning kiteloops using the Neo? That was my plan. I have neos too. Seems to be a pretty quick kite.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:53 pm

Macster wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:16 pm
If you are only just starting to jump then save megalooping for a year or two when you have normal jumping dialed in.
This. Stay with what you have and work on improving technique.
I can't rave enough about the Ozone Enduro. For me it is the clear winner of the crossover kites (FX, Dice, and GTS5).
Agree with you, but then I would because I also have Enduros.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby edt » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:13 pm

Literally the only reason to buy a Dice is to unhook it has poor relaunch (takes a long time to relaunch even with the 5th line), and loops hard. Between the Rebel and Evo, it used to be the rebel was a lot better in gusty conditions, and i would say go with the rebel but they have changed how the rebel feels recently so I dunno which is better. If you want a gentle, loop a kite that boosts higher than anything else in the market, something that will always catch you, relaunches in an instant, incredibly handling go with the Naish Pivot. I don't suggest the Naish line if you plan on holding it more than 3 or 4 years just because It's a pain fixing the octopus, I mean you can do it just a pain, but if you keep kites for about 3 years or so the Pivot can't be beat. I love the enduro it's a fantastic kite and seems to be much more durable than it's weight and looks indicate, it loops great, always catches you but feels a little bit under powered compared to other kites in its size range. The Enduro is something which has enough pop that you can actually unhook with it, which I like but you won't care about. The Enduro is a fantastic choice for doing megaloops, loops very fast due to it's light construction and has great handling. I have ridden a fair amount on the eleveights seem to be really good kites but don't really have a firm opinion how it stacks up to the rest of the field yet. If you read reviews of the dice notice they never talk about having to pull the 5th line to relaunch it because who wants to give a kite a thumbs down? That's literally the first thing I do with a kite, see how it relaunches, if it doesn't relaunch easily I'm done. Both the enduro and pivot have fantastic relaunch I would feel comfortable taking it out in big wave conditions. There are so many great kites to choose from, don't worry too much about which one you use modern kites are really super nice for the most part. Pivot, Eleveight, Evo, Rebel, Enduro would all be fantastic choice. I don't ride the Cabrinha kites to demo them just because they change too much year to year, I can't keep track of them. We don't have a core dealer around here so haven't demo-ed core kites at all.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby vannibombonato » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:05 pm

If you’re just starting out with “2-3 meters” jump I would really not worry too much about what kite is better at mega looping.

You can loop with any modern kite, what will be holding you back more is balls, not gear.

After a long time I’ve just started some looping and I do it fine on Rebels, and it had come easier than the Evos I’ve had before.

Go with a friendly kite, save the C stuff for (much) later on when your problem will be survival when looping in 25+ kn. You don’t need it now, and it will hold you back, just as getting a Formula1 would hold back someone who is starting to learn driving.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby ARK » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:00 am

Honestly, I think the Neo is a great kite to learn loops on too.

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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby CALencioni » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:26 pm

ARK wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:00 am
Honestly, I think the Neo is a great kite to learn loops on too.
I learned down loops on my Neo and I'll eventually progress to Big air/Kiteloops(on my neo) when I'm ready. I think the Neo is really quick and if you ever pull on a single steering line to speed up the loop, it really whips around really removing power and almost making the loop instantaneous.

I only have my 17M Blade Fat Lady to compare downloops on and they're similar.

I'll leave you with this guy looping his Neo:(That color was only available 2017 for a Neo)




Also a couple other folks on Youtube that loop Neos and use them for big air.

Many people look too much into the market material rather than just flying the flippin kite. Talk to Airton Cozzolino about looping a Neo.
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Re: Big Air/Kiteloop Progression Kites

Postby Leon van Bergen » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:52 pm

Macster wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:16 pm
You'll never get a definitive answer, it's all personal preference. IMHO when looking for the perfect jumping kite you need to decide between height, hang time and looping ability. Kites that have awesome boost and hang time are usually weak in their kite loops like the Pivot, Slash, Bandit and XR.

I've tried most of the North range. Sorry but I hate the Rebel. The Evo is a good alrounder and better at jumping than the Dice but I think the Dice is better at looping than the Evo. The Vegas is awesome at looping but loses hang time against the others. Etc etc.

If you are only just starting to jump then save megalooping for a year or two when you have normal jumping dialed in.

I can't rave enough about the Ozone Enduro. For me it is the clear winner of the crossover kites (FX, Dice, and GTS5).

Anyway good luck. As long as you don't but a Rebel you will be fine with any of those choices!
Fine that you personally hate the rebel but please don't advise not to buy one. The best big air kiters from the Netherlands (so world) fly the rebel and loop them like crazy!



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