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Air gibes in marginal winds

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K-Roy
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby K-Roy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:25 pm

flaps1111 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:00 am
K-Roy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:46 am
In marginal wind, I prefer the option 3. (pivot turn)
With a 1000cm2 front wing and a race kite...

Cheers
Is there a video of this gibe?

Unfortunately no.
If it would help, I try to make a video in May/June...

Cheers
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby dkazhdan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:00 pm

K-Roy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:25 pm
flaps1111 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:00 am
K-Roy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:46 am
In marginal wind, I prefer the option 3. (pivot turn)
With a 1000cm2 front wing and a race kite...

Cheers
Is there a video of this gibe?

Unfortunately no.
If it would help, I try to make a video in May/June...

Cheers
it would be very helpful.

windmaker
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby windmaker » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:31 am

tomtom wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:12 am
This video is one of kind which explain exactly nothing. What it show is clear for anybody who even dare to try. And there is nothing about foot switch which is thing that make that success or fail. So just switch your feet... :)
Sorry nothing against this video in particular but there are lot of these videos from talented guys who somehow do everything without knowing how. And they have obvious problem to transfer this knowledge to less talented guys /like me/ :)
Best way to learn any transition is to have someone who can actually do what you want to learn near you. As different people make different mistakes he can see what you are doing wrong and correct you.

Next best thing is to have a video of someone doing the move watch it over and over and try to workout how to do it. Some people react better to complex step by step explanations, others are more visual and can figure out by watching a few times. For some persons a foot switch is just a foot switch, for others it's a mountain. In any case the solution is practice, practice.

I remember learning how to air jibe without having ever seen a video or someone actually do one because there was none available and so few of us. Wished then I had a video of someone doing an air jibe seen from a mile away. So reading people these days saying a video explains exactly nothing makes me smile .

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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby windmaker » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:43 am

K-Roy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:46 am
In marginal wind, I prefer the option 3. (pivot turn)
With a 1000cm2 front wing and a race kite...

Cheers
,

Not saying this does not work but not the best way. Does not make sense, high aspect race kites need more apparent wind to perform than other kites, coupled with a higher drag slower front foil wing = mismatch.
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flaps1111
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby flaps1111 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:46 am

Perhaphs there isn't a instructional video explaining the pivot turn, but do you know any video of somebody doing it?

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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby cwood » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:12 pm

windmaker wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:59 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:26 pm
windmaker wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:10 pm


Used this technique for years (kitefoiling since 2005) it s much easier than the traditional foot swap /down loop method used by racers. Can only be done on a very close reach which often implies a change of direction before each turn and looks a bit clunky or not as fluid. Completely useless on a downwinder as you end up sailing away from your original direction on every turn which is very ... inefficient.

Second this, longer lines, keep lines tensioned before the turn, and kite quite low (not so low that you lose speed though), and turn it up and around while you carve, carve tight, and use the downward path to get kite speed so you keep foiling.
If you use shorter lines, you will probably end up with the kite too low at the end of the carve, thus stop foiling, and you will also lose the good power sweep.

This is the very reason I use 30 m lines on all kites above 10 m2, as this works splendid for me from 8 knots and down.

Sometimes I do a "race jibe" meaning kite up high, carve around and let the kite follow after.
Problem is, if I carve too late, the kite can not downloop and might end up in the water, because of slack lines, and a swim ashore is the result in this wind.
If I carve too early, I might end up not foiling during the carve, as the kite havent picked up power yet when it hasnt picked up speed in the downloop yet.
So for me this is a difficult move actually, and more risky too.
But I can see, when perfected and you keep a lot of speed, it might be the best way to get as low as possible yes - I just havent found the holy grail here yet, OR, my bigger wings are too slow :wink:

Windmaker, you are one of the very early pioneers then?
Since 2005 :thumb:

It seems the first experiments was around 2001.
But I first saw a more public video of kitefoils in 2007, where the Mango Carafino board came, awesome and started it all slowly back then, eventhough it was the French who made kitefoils so fast that raceboards died and got extinct in one single year, so now the whole world started foiling and believing in it :rollgrin:

8) PF
Sure, timing with the down loop is harder to get right than with the "tight lines" jibe method but really no big deal, you just need to understand it. Just like someone else said in a previous post as long as you have board speed , all good.
Using this technique, on certain occasions I was sailing back and forth relying solely on apparent wind. If for any reason I stopped it would be impossible to waterstart again.

BTW Carafino was already making foils in 2005 .

IMG_1086.JPGIMG_1087.JPGimg_0414s.jpg
are those ski boots!?!

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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby windmaker » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:09 pm

Raichle snowboard hard boots and bindings.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed May 01, 2019 12:12 am

Ok not wonderful but you can see one pivot give in marginal wind in the folowing video.

This was my first gibe with this new 18m kite + so long lines (34 m ) + a pulley bar, so the timing of sending the kite was too late / timid for this size (very powerful zenith and high bar pressure ) ... and I lost the planning on this first trial. With my well-known 15m I am more accustomed and would have kept the planning.
But you can guess the philosophy and see how tight turn it is and that there is absolutely not risk of slack line vs a downwind gibe + loop



... waiting for a better video
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue May 14, 2019 10:21 pm

Here is a mix of several pivot-gibes i extracted for you during two sessions i light wind.It would have been better if the camera was not only on my helmet, but at least you can see the tight upwind angle , then kite sending and then its lift during the sort "ankle turn".


I had a "standard wing" during these sessions while it is even more efficient with the 1200 cm2 when comparing with a "loop-gibe". I should be able to find others with the 1200 cm2 and a 18m2 kite (a bit more tricky with long lines) and 7m2 LEI.
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neilhapgood
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Re: Air gibes in marginal winds

Postby neilhapgood » Wed May 15, 2019 9:24 am

is it safe to say you turn the kite hard in the other direction then start to turn once it is pulling you back the other way? Thanks for the video too.


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