Kites available in sizes smaller than 4m?

[slowboat]

[........ foiling in more or fully onshore conditions can be a blast, actually I find it better than when sideshore, on a foil.


Peter

Please explain this, in some detail if you don't mind. Onshore vs sideshore for wave foiling.

[elguapo]

imo foils open up the non-breaking swell.. more wind for most amt of time in the largest area (or onions on a weather map) gives the best swell.

..but strictly for "surfing" a wave(and can only speak for my preferences)

but offshore winds are imo the best... you actually get a rolling well shaped wave with a proper break.
but for the kiting part...obviously offshore is not ideal (better to have a boat/rescue service available)

cross to onshore winds are the same....crappy.
onshore is the worse.. you are getting pulled the wrong direction (if you cant turn kite off) and the wave crumbles to mush.
with cross shore at least you are(not) getting pulled off the face and can cutback/smack the lip as normal..but both on shore/side shore winds give no shape to a wave.

[junebug]

Does anyone have experience foiling with the small Switch Elements? The 3m, 4m, and 5m sizes are all one strut.

[sflinux]

I would advise against getting a 3M Neo, too close in size to your 4M.
I would also advise against a 3.7M Cloud, too close in size to your 4M.
If choosing between the Cloud 2.8 and 2.2, I would probably lean towards the Cloud 2.2. If there any gap between your 4M Neo and a Cloud 2.2, you could fill it with a board change (i.e. surfboard). Walking on the beach with a Cloud is a nice experience, compared to traditional kites. Small Clouds take up no space, so no excuse for not packing on windy days. Ask Greg, I'm sure he would steer you the right direction.
I love small kites, 1.5 decades ago, I remember when some manufacturers would make 9M as the smallest size. Riding smaller kites is safer in my opinion.
I agree with the recommendation for short lines for small kites. <18.5M works for me. And don't forget to use a smaller bar <43 cm.

[tkaraszewski]

The most appealing options here so far are the small Cloud and the small Breeze. I can probably borrow a 2.8 Cloud to try out, a few of the guys here fly them. I'm not opposed to a small foil kite, but having a kite that's nothing like the kites I usually fly that I only use when it's super windy isn't that appealing.

I could, of course, jump on a surfboard, but I'd rather go foiling if I can get the right kite for it. Especially with the sort of flattish swell we get here that isn't all that exciting on a surfboard, compared to big, steep ocean waves.

[Peter_Frank]

The most appealing options here so far are the small Cloud and the small Breeze. I can probably borrow a 2.8 Cloud to try out, a few of the guys here fly them. I'm not opposed to a small foil kite, but having a kite that's nothing like the kites I usually fly that I only use when it's super windy isn't that appealing.

I could, of course, jump on a surfboard, but I'd rather go foiling if I can get the right kite for it. Especially with the sort of flattish swell we get here that isn't all that exciting on a surfboard, compared to big, steep ocean waves.

Exactly my thoughts too.

Mixing kites in the small sizes, I wouldnt do - either foil kites all the way, or in the big ones, and LEI in the small ones.

I have it quite opposite regarding line lengths, in the small ones I prefer longer lines more than in the bigger sizes actually, well at least "normal" lines and not short ones.
It sort of smoothen out the on/off twitchy feel most or all really small kites got.
And extends the windrange hugely, so for riding waves you can use an even smaller kite, and dont get overpowered as you would otherwise, which is a PITA in waves and wind.

Of course, if you DONT have a sufficiently small kite, you might be able to ride your smallest in higher winds by using shorter lines, but that does not mean it is the best solution.
Personal preferences, I know, short or longer lines

A shorter bar, not for me, as I see no problems using a normal bar with the smallest kites.

Regarding wind direction slowboat:
Sideshore is what we love from surfboards.
And a few years ago when trying to foil in waves, I kindof tried to emulate surfing at first.
But found out, that it did not make much sense (to me at least, I know I am "odd" maybe) to try to emulate and ride DTL.

When wind is cross onshore, even onshore, you sort of got more room between waves, and you can ride upwind over the waves to windward, or carve all the way around to leeward and carve back on the steep wave.

The chop that the wind direction might produce, is of no issue at all, when on a foil - that is the whole idea of a foil right?

Sorry I can not explain exactly, nor be more specific, but for me it sort of gives more options and fun to play around in waves, when more onshore than sideshore, just opposite to waveboards.
Besides the waves are a lot bigger here where I live, and the wind is cleaner, and if something happens you will drift ashore safely.

The angles you can ride and play with are better if cross onshore instead of sideshore in my experience, because foiling is very different and we have a lot more range of angles we can "use" up or downwind, awesome and very different.

Even when dead onshore you can have fun carving on your foil in waves, which is impossible with a surfboard.

It might just be me, I know, so sorry if noone else got it this way....

Peter

[windmaker]

Agreed with Peter that longer lines smoothen out and broaden the range of very small kites and disagree with the fact that 4 to 3m is too small of a gap between kites. In reality it is huge equaling to 25% less area same as going from a 10m to 7.5m.

My quiver is 3/4/5/6 and 8m Bandits + 11m Aeros Navy2 (foil kite) and guess what, the biggest gap is between the 3 and 4m.

[geokite]

Looking for thoughts on using a 4m Switch Element with a Lift 170 at Sherman Island (summer wind averages about 20-25mph). If too much (kite or wing), would you recommend getting a 3m Element, or a Lift 150?

Thanks for your input!

[tomtom]

1+ to 3 and 4 is HUGE difference. actually 3.5 to 4 will be better.

It is same as windsurfing 4.2 to 4.7 was right step back in the days

[slowboat]

Looking for thoughts on using a 4m Switch Element with a Lift 170 at Sherman Island (summer wind averages about 20-25mph). If too much (kite or wing), would you recommend getting a 3m Element, or a Lift 150?

Thanks for your input!

If needed, get a smaller kite. The Lift 150 is just not that different from the 170.