Down Loop practice

[psz211]

Hi All -

I've been practicing down looping. I can Down Loop on a small trainer kite, and want to do it on my closed cell 6M foil kite. When I took it out the other day in light wind and tried to Down Loop, I crashed it down ever time. I was practicing on land.

Knowing down loops give you more power, is it safe to practice on land? Why would I crash every time (typically straight down)?
Should I instead be practicing on water?

Thanks for any advice on whether I should be practicing on land or water with my 6M.

-Preston

[SENDIT!]

Hi Preston,
I typically wouldn't recommend anything that big on land. For the most part, you're probably ok. However, in the right circumstances, you could get an unpleasant surprise and get yanked/dragged/lofted by the kite. Depending on your line length or specifics of your foil kite, it might be very difficult to complete a loop before it hits the ground. I can't remember for sure, but I seem to remember having an Airush trainer kite that the lines were so short, we couldn't actually complete the loop before it would hit the ground.

Bottom line, I'd practice that in the water somewhere, just to be on the safe side.

SENDIT!

PS You ARE already a kiteboarder, right? Why not just practice the downloops on the water while you're riding?

[alexglebov]

Hi Preston,
Make sure you pull the bar all the way in before you loop it, steer the kite very hard, the bar should be almost parallel with the lines, when kite finish the bottom part and starts climbing, then sheet out. I am doing kiteboarding, snowboarding and landboarding, so I often practice on land. If you are SF Bay area, go to Shoreline kite park to practice. The biggest kite I looped on land is 10m. The foil Pansh Genesis, 6m loops great. make sure your kite is trimmed correctly - when you pull the bar all the way in, it should backstall a little.

[psz211]

@SendIt Thanks for the POV on safety. It may be the line length, I'll check that out. I am a water kiter, but doing both board skills and kiting at the same time has really slowed down my learning. I've decided that with my limited time its easier to just get an hour or two in on the land with my 6M to practice kite skills when I can. No need to hop in a wetsuit, etc. : )
@Alexglebov Hey! You've given me some tips before on the SF forum re: landboarding/snow kiting that were super helpful. These deets are great. I've been to Shorline park here and there, I'll try it again. I'm flying a Viron Flysurfer 2 6m, which so far I like a lot. Will check for trimmed lines, I suspect that might be an issue.
I wasn't pulling all the way in on my bar, so I'll give that a go.

I'll follow up here once I've figured it out.

-Preston

[Herman]

Pszz211

Make sure you are committed. Once you have decided to loop sheet in and pull in hard with one hand and keep the bar fishpoled. If the kite is not turning quickly enough grab a handful of the tensioned leader with the other (top) hand and pull in extra steering line. Do not back out of a loop. Once the kite has gone round sheet out to get kite moving again.

Start in light winds, check trimmed property, lines~20m,..........

Imho the lines would have to be very short to be unable to loop a 6m. Start with the kite high and not stuck on the edge of the window particularly during early familiarisation, work the kite before the loop.

Regards Herman.

[oksman]

All the above is true. Cranking the bar, pulling hard and keeping the bar almost parallel to the lines, pointing the board downwind, and the most important: always, always commit! If you stop the pull in the middle of the loop you're definitely going to crash.
I would add a small hint also. When doing your first downloops (on water is safer), instead of starting with the kite at 45 degrees, try to take it a little higher before starting the loop, like 11 or 1 o'clock. That will give you more room to loop it without crashing and will also result in a softer loop.
In a matter of fact, every kite is loopable with proper technique. I've been looping my 15m Chrono V1 on snow without any problem. Just go for it and remember, always commit!

[elguapo]

@SendIt Thanks for the POV on safety. It may be the line length, I'll check that out. I am a water kiter, but doing both board skills and kiting at the same time has really slowed down my learning. I've decided that with my limited time its easier to just get an hour or two in on the land with my 6M to practice kite skills when I can. No need to hop in a wetsuit, etc. : )
@Alexglebov Hey! You've given me some tips before on the SF forum re: landboarding/snow kiting that were super helpful. These deets are great. I've been to Shorline park here and there, I'll try it again. I'm flying a Viron Flysurfer 2 6m, which so far I like a lot. Will check for trimmed lines, I suspect that might be an issue.
I wasn't pulling all the way in on my bar, so I'll give that a go.

I'll follow up here once I've figured it out.

-Preston

i know nothing about landboarding.
but for kitesurfing..
this is the type of thinking that will get someone seriously hurt imo...

practice your kiteloops/downloops whatever... where you have room for error... ie in the water.

looping creates power...what will you do with that power?
stand firm?
run towards the kite? ...or get dragged face first until you find a hard object?
and how can you know how fast or slow you should loop?

just speaking from my own experiences.. but looping my 6m slowly in winds strong enough to fly a 6m puts me at least 10m downwind instantly
maybe you guys are much more athletic than me.. but again.. water is a MUCH more forgiving medium for practicing kiteloops than on the beach.

if you have a beach with access to water...please go practice your kiteloops in the water.. where you have sufficient room downwind.

[Herman]

Elguapo wrote:
just speaking from my own experiences.. but looping my 6m slowly in winds strong enough to fly a 6m puts me at least 10m downwind instantly

[/quote]

Presumably you mean enough wind to kitesurf with a 6m. A 6m can be flown in less than 10knts of wind where a tight committed loop would not produce significant power.

Nice warning of the dangers though!

[PullStrings]

Preston you can practice downlooping with your 17.5 LF Solo or with your 12 Rebel easily no problem
Do it in the lightest of wind the kite can fly on the beach...you don't have to be in the water....just make sure it's all clear downwind with generous buffer zone
It is a great skill to master
You can avoid having a kite fall out of the sky into the water when stalling at a 45 degree angle at the edge of the wind window
Fly your kite then send it to the window edge at angle 45 and let it stay there for a moment flying...when ready..... downloop it without hesitation
Best tip I can give you for bar control is the " push/pull method " using both hands on bar
With your hands half way from bar center start by pushing hard first with one hand then right away pull hard with the other and keep the bar angled strongly to make kite spin tightly
Once loop is done at about 10 ft from ground … relax...and make the kite fly across the window low to the ground ( about 5ft ) all the way to other side...plant your heels and bend knees the kite will pull hard for a moment
Before it gets to the other window edge make kite go up to 45 degrees then downloop again and so on and so on
Practice sweeping from right side to left side then reverse the sweeping to left side to right side to become symmetrical with memory muscles
Get good at doing all those low figure " 8's "
Been doing it with big or small kites ….ram airs or Lei's for as long as I've been kitesurfing
Build your confidence
It will become second nature one day
When you are on the water then you should practice doing all your turns with a downloop on each tack
After a while you can start getting some air and do transitions frontrolls and backrolls with downloops
Have fun
Be safe
Choose the right conditions ( the lighter the wind the better then progress up the wind scale ) and locations to practice

[pj sofine]

Personally I see no reason to practice on land . Its not like looping on land braced against the pull of kite has any bearing on down looping on water. It's a very basic skill. Just take the above advice , in mellow wind it will take you a few minutes to sort it all out.