Aluula? New Revolutionary Material from Ocean Rodeo

[Toby]

I tried a foil several times.

I know what it can do and what not.

Here is my proof of what a tube can do:

Www.Strictlyhooked.Com

How about your proof ?

[atomic-chomik]

@ foilholio- i won't bother with passive aggressive insults and carefully crafted elitist arguments. Your post is irritating and while you clearly have good writing ability, you lack taste and an opinion grounded in reality. Go away, go join some grumpy windsurfer group-please.

[iriejohn]

Thanks for that. Not. It was ~1000 words of downhill defensive (mostly) unjustified partisan opinion until it got to this ...

It is also easier for some to ride bikes with training wheels. Those type of people are quick to insults too. Is the mental age of a proportion of the kiting community struggling past that of a toddler?

... then it finally fell off the edge of the silly cliff!

Ive got to say LEI have a clear advantage for safe launch when lit up. Both tethered self launch and assisted launch.

Assisted launch yes, but self launch no way. Interestingly assisted land for foil could be argued as better.

not trying to persuade you. Don't try to persuade me, no chance

You ask for a kite that does something, and it exists but won't use it. Whatever.

If this new generation of inflatable kites do weigh the same as equivalent size foil kites, will foil kites have any advantages over inflatable kites and if so, what are they?

There already exists tube kites lighter than some foils, but those tubes as strutless have their own disadvantages. Yes making a tube kite lighter will close the gap to a foil kite but you forget that the same materials that make a tube lighter are also available to foil kites and will infact be more effective on them because of their flexible nature which stresses fabric less. Infact people have already used such materials in one offs. But in spite of that what will remain for foils after tube kites are lighter? Efficiency so they will still go upwind better, jump higher and longer and win all the races. Durability, you won't make a tube kite more durable by making it lighter and it's the flexible nature of a foil that makes it more durable, those will stay the same. In fact tubes are looking to become more rigid and use higher pressure which will bring more of these issues. Leaks, not anywhere the issue they are on tubes. Self inflation, ain't it great. Fast setup, with lines attached and self inflation, setup can be incredibly quick. Much more self landing and launching possibilities through more capabilities, can you swim out with an underinflated tube and launch it from the water? land it where you stand? Drift may still be better or not I am not sure, making a tube lighter will certainly improve that for them. That's all that comes to mind. When foils use the same materials they will just be a little better at the price of more cost and less durability. For certain making tubes lighter will lessen some differences for light wind. Although it will be possible to make a foil that static flys in 1-3knots I think kiting that low is not something many people will have an interest in. The main disadvantage I think with tubes as they can fly in less wind as they become lighter will be the inefficiency of their shape, that could possibly improve though.

What makes you think that Ralf's designs are inferior to other brands?

Nothing really they are all much equally bad. As I commented in another thread because of the surprisingly low volume of gear there is not much hope in kiteboarding for the gear to improve much. Using new materials is not any sort of effort on a designers part. Smart people working hard will make better gear. It is not surprising that a brand like Flysurfer ,which cut it's own path with Foils quite successfully, that when they came out with tube kites they where the best on the market and probably still are. What is surprising is how gear is received and perceived in the market. This is a very image driven sport and those that can have the best image, so have what is perceived the best riders, videos, and gear win the sales. For certain there has to be an acceptable level of capability in the products, but it has surprised me over the years just what shit some of these companies can sell and it was shit.

As to Ralf, it is probably mostly his english but from one of many things I heard from him like paragliders and tubes work on different physics, then when you hold incorrect ideas like that then from those principles you work up from and make all sorts of wrong decisions. It is super important you have at your basis the correct principles for anything if you want to do the best. Aerodynamics is well known to have some really incorrect theory taught for a long time and even still and those ideas still are in peoples heads as the basis for their choices, particularly the heads of older people likely in design positions. I still hear them regularly on this forum, the people and their wrong ideas.

Exactly....no more Need of foil kite now ...exept for pro race rider and some groupies foil lovers (every year less luckily)...

We will see. I don't think by making tubes lighter it will offer enough for me to want to own them but it will certainly make them more enjoyable to fly. Foils will still offer the best value for money and I think user experience. You ain't going to improve that with tubes by making them more expensive and I think more likely to get leaks and break. If a brand like Pansh can just improve a little bit more it will be interesting to see what they do to kiteboarding. It is hard even with slick marketing to stand against a competitor with 1/2 the price let alone 1/10 in some cases from Pansh. They eviscerated the land kiting market.

It has always interested me the foil vs tube mindset. I think the image driven choices that land people in camp tube has them behaving childishly with insults and like for fear that if their gear is perceive in someway inferior it will ruin their chances at reproduction. Interesting. Also tubes are in fact easier for many things so too tricks become easier. It is also easier for some to ride bikes with training wheels. Those type of people are quick to insults too. Is the mental age of a proportion of the kiting community struggling past that of a toddler? Does new graphics on kites marketed as coming from the year in the future cause them to empty their wallets ever year?

[OzBungy]

... shit ...

If this new generation of inflatable kites do weigh the same as equivalent size foil kites, will foil kites have any advantages over inflatable kites and if so, what are they?

Thanks.

My understanding is that foil kites have one specific advantage. You can make a very high aspect, very efficient wing because of the support of the bridles and the internal structure.

An LEI cannot be made rigid enough to make a high aspect high performance wing. Narrow leading edges are not stiff. Thick ones are not efficient. Adding bridles alone is not enough to make a flat, efficient, high aspect wing.

Aluula might go some way to changing that if you can make a thin, rigid leading edge. We shall see.

[dave1986]

My understanding is that foil kites have one specific advantage. You can make a very high aspect, very efficient wing because of the support of the bridles and the internal structure.

An LEI cannot be made rigid enough to make a high aspect high performance wing. Narrow leading edges are not stiff. Thick ones are not efficient. Adding bridles alone is not enough to make a flat, efficient, high aspect wing.

Aluula might go some way to changing that if you can make a thin, rigid leading edge. We shall see.

You hit the nail on the head. Having the most aerodynamically efficient kite is most important in light winds and racing. Freeride in medium to stronger winds the characteristics of high aerodynamic efficiency that come from foil kites become less important - and the "feel" of the kite as well as safety and other factors then takes over as more important.

[longwhitecloud]

It's great news all around that way overpriced sinking wave destructed flying sleeping bags and their disproportional stretching spaghetti bridles are finally going to be put to rest.

Good riddance to over priced sinking eggs.

On the flip side if this stuff is expensive then kiteboarding is still making a huge mistake because...

1...kiteboarding - a kite, a board and a harness
2...foilboring - a kite a board a harness and a foil . ADD $2000
3...akiting with alulla - a kite a board and a foilk - ADD $2000 and $500 for the Alulla?

MORE and MORE out of reach, more and more likely to decline the industry and participants.

I actually think that the KIte Wing will take off - just from the financial side of things. Who can afford this kiteboarding crap... Is that why local kite scenes worldwide are looking more and more like the scenes in the 80s movie cocoon?

Yes.

[dave1986]

It's great news all around that way overpriced sinking wave destructed flying sleeping bags and their disproportional stretching spaghetti bridles are finally going to be put to rest.

Good riddance to over priced sinking eggs.

On the flip side if this stuff is expensive then kiteboarding is still making a huge mistake because...

1...kiteboarding - a kite, a board and a harness
2...foilboring - a kite a board a harness and a foil . ADD $2000
3...akiting with alulla - a kite a board and a foilk - ADD $2000 and $500 for the Alulla?

MORE and MORE out of reach, more and more likely to decline the industry and participants.

I actually think that the KIte Wing will take off - just from the financial side of things. Who can afford this kiteboarding crap... Is that why local kite scenes worldwide are looking more and more like the scenes in the 80s movie cocoon?

Yes.

I agree... none of the new and expensive equipment is necessary for winds above 15mph. And will unfortunately not help the sport grow.
However for me, having recently has a daughter has drastically reduced the number of days I can kitesurf. So owning a foil kite and a hydrofoil has really improved things.

[Macster]

I actually think that the KIte Wing will take off - just from the financial side of things. Who can afford this kiteboarding crap... Is that why local kite scenes worldwide are looking more and more like the scenes in the 80s movie cocoon?

Yes.

Lol. That new duotone advert featuring the 50 year old English architect made me think the same thing. The new and only target demographic that can actually afford new kiting prices

[Carlos_C]

...foilboring - a kite a board a harness and a foil . ADD $2000

Gong are making a complete foil rig for 800 Euros....that's becoming affordable for someone who gets out a couple of times a month like me.

And for Foils disappearing I see more foils now on the beach now than in the last 17 years. But anything to make tubes lighter has to be applauded

[jumptheshark]

It's great news all around that way overpriced sinking wave destructed flying sleeping bags and their disproportional stretching spaghetti bridles are finally going to be put to rest.

Good riddance to over priced sinking eggs.

On the flip side if this stuff is expensive then kiteboarding is still making a huge mistake because...

1...kiteboarding - a kite, a board and a harness
2...foilboring - a kite a board a harness and a foil . ADD $2000
3...akiting with alulla - a kite a board and a foilk - ADD $2000 and $500 for the Alulla?

MORE and MORE out of reach, more and more likely to decline the industry and participants.

I actually think that the KIte Wing will take off - just from the financial side of things. Who can afford this kiteboarding crap... Is that why local kite scenes worldwide are looking more and more like the scenes in the 80s movie cocoon?

Yes.

Hey, I'm not one of the one percent either. Kite gear is generally expensive for me and I have a great job. I have a lot of other demands on my income. Windsurfing was always expensive for me, even when I was a teen. I cobbled together a workable kit, none of it new and learned the ropes while having a blast. Today, Im not in the "new quiver every other year" crowd, and pick and choose my used kite purchases as I need em. When I compare to other sports like golf, or cycling, or a Harley, what we do is soooooo much more affordable.

Youth outside of the trust fund crowd have never ever been able to afford new kite or windsurfing gear. Those that have really wanted to do it, just do. They find used stuff like we did when we were kids and they make it work. From the Dominican, to Sweden, to Oz, there are no average youth crowd that can afford new kite gear. Never were.

Your welcome to keep ranting along the same lines, but its really making you similar to all the other one trick ponies on here who push their one and only agenda to the point of self alienation.

Lets at least try and get back to what this sport had once upon a time. The thrill and joy and excitement in the evolution. Our stuff is so much better now than it was when we learned. There are issues with all the growth, but it doesn't have to kill the joy for you individually.

I'm not saying you have to change your mind. Just don't jump on every opportunity to poo poo every little change. Post more about your taste in surfboards and less about your distain for pretty much everything else.

You have opinions on so many other things that are of value to the conversations that could go on here.

Lets get away from the shit that divides us and build a little stoke! This new material and ideas like it are full of potential. Are 14 year olds mowing lawns for some income going to be the market.. no, but a few years from now they will be the ones scooping the deals on Ikitesurf, just as it has always been.

We know the gear is not getting cheaper, we know the olympics is not representative of kiteboarding and we all know world sailing has no real impact on what we choose to do as kitesurfers the world over.

You are one of the OG's on here. Try not to tinge everything with a bitter edge. We are generally all here as an extension of our joy for the sport. If we stop feeding the negativity, be it political, environmental, or simply personality disorders, we can all collectively steer this forum back toward the positive.