High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone shame shame shame

[fluidity]

Awesome flamey thread! I'm going to stick with low split until some wealthy and much younger bimbo shouts me a trip to Capetown where I can practice unlimited loops on the way down from amazing heights without braiding my front lines into a hot friction melted mess

[grigorib]

I think they suck too. What are you supposed to do if you roll the kite or invert it? You can't put the bar back through the front lines, so basically limp back to shore and rerig.
...
I'll never buy a kite that requires a high Y bar.

Seen that few times, that’s another big negative point

[andylc]

Don’t know about others but the f-one bar still has 2 separate centre lines from the bar so most of the criticisms regarding not having independent centre lines are irrelevant. As for farting about trying to sort an inverted kite from the bar, well this sounds a pretty foolish plan anyway. Can’t remember the last time I had a kite invert.

[Blackened]

the duotone lines are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I've broke one only one in the last 10 years and it was a slack then major tension that broke it. any line will break if left slack then fully loaded. all lines handle extreme loading up to 800 lbs just not all at once on one line with cranking winds. i just wish they didnt smell so bad haha.

My wallet says otherwise. I've broken at least one per year in the 8 years I've been kiting. I broke three in the first year I kited (two were possibly my fault). The last one I broke six months ago happened (luckily) about 5m in the air on the way up in a boost. The lines that replaced them are still as good as new. I never had other brands even start fraying like North/Duotone. Annoyingly, I think it's the best shaped, most comfortable bar in kiting and really like their kites. I hate myself.

I'm going to stick with low split until some wealthy and much younger bimbo shouts me a trip to Capetown where I can practice unlimited loops on the way down from amazing heights without braiding my front lines into a hot friction melted mess

Exactly this. Sigh.

[Kamikuza]

What are you supposed to do if you roll the kite or invert it? You can't put the bar back through the front lines, so basically limp back to shore and rerig.

I never experienced putting the kite through the lines until I got a low-V bar.

Ok I tell a lie, I remember doing it once and the result was the same as with the low-V -- I had to ride back to shore and land the kite. In the case of the low-V it was because the wind was so light I only just got the kite relaunched...

Six of one and a half dozen of the other.

[longwhitecloud]

high ys cause the tips to pull together more, so kites that have these need something to balance this out like a 5th line

other than cleaning up the look (bunching together lines), and saving 10m of line - i dont really see any advantages at all


if someone could explain otherwise i am all ears.

[Kamikuza]

What you're describing is the exact problem that the OP is moaning about. You have to walk up the single front line until you get to the Y then you can pull the upper line. With a low-V bar you just reach up and pull the top line and land the kite. It's actually quite fun in stronger winds to "haul" a kite out of the sky on a single line.

However, a lot of bars now are low-V with a link that can make a high-Y configuration. With that you can have all the "advantages" of a high-Y with the convenience of a low-V.

Personally I can't think of any advantages of a high-Y that are worth having. There's all these perfectly great kites that work beautifully with a low-V with all the simplicity and convenience of that entails. Chasing micro-advantages with unusual equipment configurations is pointless.

PS I used high-Y bars for 10 years, self launching and landing the whole time. I did just fine on them. Low-V is far better.

So another couple of steps? Oh the horror

"simplicity"
With a low-V, you HAVE to have a single front safety and that means below the bar swivel with some sort of pass-through block and both are a PITA. There has to be some sort of bearing, some sort of knot and stopper for the safety line, and until recently no BTB trim.

Compare the Cabrinha 2011 bar to the 2013 bar or whichever one it was that everyone loved so much for the over-engineering

OR Infinite Surf bar. There's just a pulley on a swivel for the main line...

[PullStrings]

High Y bars suck in every single way. There is zero upsides to having a high y bar.



3. Reduced ability to self land:
Without being able to pull the upper frontline

FALSE
Very easy to land
Walk up the center line until you get to a top line and pull kite LE down
It can be done with any kite size with a 5th element bar (12meters up) or a Core bar (4 meters up )
If you can't land a kite with those bars with a 7 sqm size in 35 knots you need to practice some more
Heck if very windy and top line can't be yanked safely walk the lines all the way up the kite to land it
Nothing do you with high Y

Landing kite by walking up the lines is a must skill to learn
Every school need to teach it
Pulling the upper line does not always work but walking up to kite does
Learn to land kite without using Quick Release
Low Y high Y no difference
Don't even detach from your bar when doing it
Stay hooked in and let bar hang down as you walk up
Keep that bar clean out of the sand
Put it on kite canopy once it is landed Leading Edge down

Added more to post

[POACHER]

I'd like to amend my previous post and add the token disclaimer about putting your bar through the front lines: this is something only to be done in light air conditions or assisted. It can go sideways quickly if inexperienced!

Nonetheless it can be done, on a low V bar.

Yeah I don't invert the kite often, but yesterday I overran the kite on a jump and had the kite hindenberg. I've also had waves roll my kite and cross up the front lines. So it can happen.

Last point I'll make is drift launching. Many of our launches are guerilla launches and require drift launching. I've said before drift launching is probably the most dangerous way to get a kite in the air. All the lines need to be 100% clear, bridles not caught on wingtips, and nothing crossed up. The high Y would undoubtedly gather more debris (weeds, sticks or anything it can collect in the front lines). That dumb little connector on North/Duotone lines was always catching on something. Not everyone lives and kites on pristine beaches in the Caribbean.

Hey this isn't a "my setup is better than yours" thread. So fly what you like, works for your situation/experience level, is safe and can service yourself.

My experience says high Y doesn't prove it's worth...... for basically a company to make their kite proprietary with their bar.

Rant over.

Cheers!

[pmaggie]

Never had a problem in 9 years with my Core bar.