Again this is a combination of things to produce the effect, though one can do it. For example the arc shape or lengths of the A bridle are a factor. On the Aurora1 I have made this more C shaped than the other bridles, and that alone can produce the effect but it is not the same as the Psycho4, it is a bit different. The Psycho4 has some component of the tips that has them fly on their own like you said, so compared to on the modified Aurora where it is more forced, i.e. the bridles can be seen pulling things in. There is a spanwise component to things though, and often missed when looking at wings not in 3d but 2d. In 3d the wing is inducing air flow across the span ultimately into vortexes, that can be viewed as either resulting from the lift or actually being the lift. It is the reason you have differing effects on and from the wing across the span. Now to get to my point, I did have one , on the Psycho 4 if shortening the center of A or lengthen the tips then you get a more flat kite depowered. It could be viewed that this changes the spanning airflow or vortex causing the tips to be more open or shut.kitexpert wrote: It is appropriate observation of P4 A line row location in wingtips, it for sure has its effect for changing PA. The closer to LE you move A line row the more depowered that part of the wing is able to be, and this is what P4 wingtips do a lot when depowered, they just float there and even turn inwards. BC line rows are more or less slack, so tweaking with them can't have a positive effect but if they are active wingtip behavior becomes more normal like in kites we now have.
This is what happens.kitexpert wrote: If P4's depowered wingtips lower L/D (which is quite probable) kite falls deeper in the WW. This may very well lead to better stability and drift.
It can look strange, but depending how it is tuned affects how much it does it and also it too can be controlled with trim/bar. The L/D actually improves for a short while when you sheet in and the tips open some. The kite is very sensitive to both tune and trim, which overall can make it a difficult kite to own and use. In short it is not an easy kite, but a quite capable kite. Now to it looking strange, often even if it is tuned to look more weird it will be much more less strange in use, though I am not saying it is perfect.kitexpert wrote: However this behavior is not without drawbacks, it makes kite at least feel and look a bit strange.
I am not sure about that, the Psycho4 is quite direct and responsive for a foil kite.kitexpert wrote:Bar feedback also suffers
The Pyscho4 can be tuned for more bar pressure, but I think the tune is much better in flight when it has less. It does not behave well with higher camber. Personally I like lighter bar, because I like well functioning limbs for other things and in kiting. Tendonitis is such a lovely affliction, that many tube kiters get. It is sure great too to injure your customers so that you and the industry eventually has less! Selection pressure should eventually reduce bar pressures and it has mostly.kitexpert wrote: Nowadays kites like Hyperlink, Nova, Soul are targeted for previous LEI users, they have more bar pressure and more precise feel, they feel quite solid all the time.
The soul is mid to high AR, so I think a kite below it is still needed. The problem with Flysurfer's lower AR solutions is they all use slow airfoils because they are mainly targeted at beginners. Slow or thick airfoils are quite disappointing for more advanced kiters. The Psycho4 is a bit faster airfoil but I think would be better even faster. With LEIs I absolutely love, "razor" thin tubes and profiles...there too low AR can have fat fucking tubes... Sorry if I insult your ego or design sensibilities kitexpert but I have a lot of experience riding, though maybe and obviously not designing but I can observe what works for me and others.kitexpert wrote: It is true Psycho4 has quite respectable boosting performance, but when Speeds came they had it too or more, and also much more hangtime. After Speeds there just wasn't much room for Psychos, freestyle foil kite is much too niche product (even though it has wider use than that). Now FS has a high performance mid AR kite Soul, so there is no way Psycho is coming back. However there is room further below Soul but I doubt if FS would continue Pulse-Unity type low-mid AR kite serie, there is already Peak which fills that segment, even on the water.
Yes but altering the arc side to side and so changing mass distribution greatly increases turn, I would be surprised if the Pyscho4 is still not one of the fastest turning foil kites in existence, especially in deluxe fabric and it's AR. Turning is not everything though, my idea for flat to flatter is mainly aimed at racing or jumping etc.kitexpert wrote: If (foil) kite is very flat turning suffers, also span wise tension of the kite is lost. So kite becomes less rigid and behaves worse.
Yes, not necessarily but it can. It is entirely dependent on the ratios of the mixer and the cord positions of the bridles and then as well their lengths.kitexpert wrote: Depowering does not necessarily mean kite lowers its camber. Camber can very well be constant, only AoA change is enough for depower. If brake line row is loose it is possible that camber decreases when powering up, it is not reasonable though.
Yes it is a play between what is practical and impractical. But as well this differs from person to person, I personally can surf with slack lines on race kites.. I don't choose to but can.kitexpert wrote: There is some contradiction if increased camber is said to lead to more depower. It is true kite will fly further in WW, but this makes it also more prone to collapse. If kite constantly collapses it is a bit difficult to enjoy increased depower. In practice lower camber setting may very well give more depower, but again there is a compromise to be found.
The camber effect can be quite large. I choose to look at it from both but am more biased to think in terms of camber.kitexpert wrote: In general I advice not to make depower kite mechanics more complex than it is. Mixer is just a tool to change AoA of soft foil kite.
I agree.kitexpert wrote: Adjustments in mixer are mainly just to restore original settings and to allow some fine tuning if user has need for it. For great majority of users original carefully designed and meticulously tested settings are the best.
Well, maybe other kites don't offer exactly what he wants, or money is an issue, or he likes to play with things. There is quite a few well proven kite technologies and then some basic engineering principles that can be applied to any kite but more so older ones, that may be missing things or have some more glaringly easy things to change. Like to me the A15 seemed quite obvious maybe the C bridle could go and it could. The engineering principle is "The best part is no part". Basically if you can remove something and it is better for it then you should. In the past more so, but I am sure still, kites can have many useless things on them, LEI are the worst offenders. I have seen large spare parts stored on the kite, like with Naish, a horrible brand. So obviously led by Robby's (though a great person) windsurf background to overbuild things. It's a failure to think fully in the new paradigm. It is interesting Greg who did work for naish went on the design kites completely differently from when he worked for them... following the simple engineering principle of removing things and seeing if it still worked. See the perceived benefit is not always the actual or there is negatives, not seen or understood. Unfortunately peoples ability to perceive is quite genetic or based in something. You can tell someone a fact or truth, show them it and they will blindly just go off in complete ignorance of it. You can even get aggression to an alternative way being better. To in someways I am guilty to this with foil kites, but I am also well aware of their deficiencies. I would like to improve those though and a better mixer is one way of a few.kitexpert wrote: If kiter has very different opinion how his kite should behave he should have bought more suitable kite for his use.
I wonder if the bridles would have solved it correctly. I actually feel quite certain they could. I have 11 year old Psycho4s that fly near perfect and bridles solve everything except canopy asymmetry, for which I use pleats to trim.jakemoore wrote: My 8 had a problem with tip collapse. In the end I shortened 1 knot on two PMA at each tip. Any more and the kite lost its magic. And for kicks I also tried to shorten alternately top and bottom skin on my 10. In the end I left it stock but it was a good experiment to develop understanding.
When the canopy is asymmetric you should ,if it is bad mainly, be able to see a different appearance side to side. If you distribute a number of small but many changes to one side then you will largely or not at all notice a difference side to side. You could actually distribute them to both sides but on one side the top skin the other the bottom. Then the changes or pleats could be even smaller and maybe even less noticeable. Though you could see the pleats on the bottom when flying and that is getting quite complicated when some times 2 or 3 thin 5mm pleats is all that is needed.jakemoore wrote: I have tuned a kite that pulled strongly to one side with a top skin tuck to add reflex to one wingtip and had good results even if the cosmetic result was poor.
PMAs sound great as a tuning option added to new kites or old, but for defects sewing pleats might be best.jakemoore wrote: No doubt if I were to do it again I would add adjustable PMA.
It is really interesting the naming with momentum, it does help understand the effect but they are technically just profile adjusters so PA, but flysurfer invented them so PMA it is. I remember the first time I heard momentum and was WTF? for me it is confusing but I understand the profile, mentioned solely as the profile. Adding a word just confuses me to think it is something else, especially I think Flysurfer might have mentioned them as just Momentum Adjusters...