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Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

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Dave K
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Style: Knee friendly kite foil and wing foil
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby Dave K » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:46 am

drsurf wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:59 pm
To Kitefoil or Wingfoil has been occupying my mind lately. I can Kitefoil well and also sell Wingfoil gear so I have access to both but haven't pursued the Wingfoil to any degree.

Today I was out kitefoiling on an Axis 110cm Tray/Moses 633 combo with a 5m Peak4 kite in 10-12 knots comfortably powered up and surfing any windswell that came through. Later in the afternoon the wind picked up to around 20 knots so I went down to a 3m Peak4 and continued having even more fun with such a lively kite.
Also at that 20 knot time a friend came out with his 4m Wingfoil on a small 5-6ft SUP with a much larger Fanatic foil than mine. He was comfortably powered up and similar in weight to me as well as being a really good Wingfoiler.
However on my 3m kite & foil gear I was faster on either tack, much more manoeuvrable, pointed higher upwind, could go deeper downwind, catch swell better, didn't have to take the weight of the kite with my arms, didn't fall off and my gear weighed very little and took up very little space. Also with my inexpensive 8m Peak4 kite I am able to start having kitefoil fun from 6-7 knots :)

I realise that my circumstances may be a little different from the average kitefoiler using an LEI kite as the Peak4 kites give me a lot more capabilities when kitefoiling, as the Peak4 thread shows viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224

So my question is what am I missing apart from having a lot more bulky and expensive gear and lower performance in the metrics I listed above?
Look at Gunnar. He can probably do everything you can do on a kite foil plus a whole bunch of really advanced stuff as well, and yet he’s cranking around with a wing having a blast. And you’re right, you will fall a lot and look like a total kook if you decide to start wing foiling,......just like all of us did when we first started kitefoiling...........

drsurf
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby drsurf » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:06 pm

Dave K wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:46 am
drsurf wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:59 pm
To Kitefoil or Wingfoil has been occupying my mind lately. I can Kitefoil well and also sell Wingfoil gear so I have access to both but haven't pursued the Wingfoil to any degree.

Today I was out kitefoiling on an Axis 110cm Tray/Moses 633 combo with a 5m Peak4 kite in 10-12 knots comfortably powered up and surfing any windswell that came through. Later in the afternoon the wind picked up to around 20 knots so I went down to a 3m Peak4 and continued having even more fun with such a lively kite.
Also at that 20 knot time a friend came out with his 4m Wingfoil on a small 5-6ft SUP with a much larger Fanatic foil than mine. He was comfortably powered up and similar in weight to me as well as being a really good Wingfoiler.
However on my 3m kite & foil gear I was faster on either tack, much more manoeuvrable, pointed higher upwind, could go deeper downwind, catch swell better, didn't have to take the weight of the kite with my arms, didn't fall off and my gear weighed very little and took up very little space. Also with my inexpensive 8m Peak4 kite I am able to start having kitefoil fun from 6-7 knots :)

I realise that my circumstances may be a little different from the average kitefoiler using an LEI kite as the Peak4 kites give me a lot more capabilities when kitefoiling, as the Peak4 thread shows viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224

So my question is what am I missing apart from having a lot more bulky and expensive gear and lower performance in the metrics I listed above?
Look at Gunnar. He can probably do everything you can do on a kite foil plus a whole bunch of really advanced stuff as well, and yet he’s cranking around with a wing having a blast. And you’re right, you will fall a lot and look like a total kook if you decide to start wing foiling,......just like all of us did when we first started kitefoiling...........
I agree when you use LEI kites and twin skin foils there are advantages to foiling on a wingfoil. But when I rode with a an experienced wingfoiler on contemporary wingfoil gear and myself using a Peak4 and lightweight surf foil combo all the advantages such as turning, catching swell, getting through lulls etc seemed to be with me.

I guess I'm completely sucked in by the Peak4 experience when foiling, and the additional range it's given me. Not just wind range but also manoeuvrability, downwind capabilities, weightlessness, low cost and portability. But I have a Wingsurfer setup so I will get around to using it.

gozokiteboarding
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby gozokiteboarding » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:33 pm

I use the Cab wing 4m wing- good once its blowing about 18knots
https://www.cabrinhakites.com/products/crosswing

I also use the Neil Pryde large wing:
https://www.neilpryde.com/products/glid ... 6306988055

I also use the JP 6'8 foil, this has plenty of volumn but could see wanting a shorter board in the future once Improve
https://jp-australia.com/p/sup/composite-boards/foil/

Slyde
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby Slyde » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:57 am

I find it very difficult to make meaningful comparisons between foil brands because all the big names-- Axis, GoFoil, Signature, Naish, Fone etc seem to move with the trends but try to have some point of difference. At the moment they are all coming out with high aspect wings which are faster by nature. What I can say from experience is that Adolfo is exactly correct: If you can kitefoil and windsurf it is EASY to get into this sport. Even better if you have SUP foil experience. You will be away on your first go. For me I found that a big slow foil got used once only and then I sold it. I should not have even bought it in the first place. I should have gone straight to a high aspect foil. All my buddies have gone high aspect very quickly. The big slow SUP wings are great for those who have no foiling experience but for anyone on this forum who can kitefoil you are going to find the big surf foils are so stable and easy by comparison that you just dont need to waste time on them. Board size is a different matter. Unless you live in a place with steady winds in the 20 knot bracket you want a board with volume 100-130 l dependent on your size because you will end up off the foil in the lulls and you need the flotation.
At present most of us are foiling on foils developed primarily for the SUP/Surf and windfoil market. Just happens they work well with the wing but most of the brands have development programs in parallel with each other so I suggest pick a reputable brand and stay with them. You will only get confused trying to compare volume, span, area etc between brands. There are too many factors to be accurate in comparison. Almost all brands have plenty of users posting their experiences with foil sizes on the internet now so its not hard to pick a foil.

And now off topic a little the wing has saved my summer downunder. We have had lots of unusual conditions making kiting less favourable but with the wing I have been on the water every day there is wind no matter the conditions. I can ride in offshore winds, launch from dodgy beaches, ride in those super gusty days that are just plain dangerous on a kite. But the biggest advantage is that the wing delivers on the promise that surf kitefoiling never did: the ability to completely depower and ride a wave straight into the wind, or in any direction. I never really got the surf kitefoil thing but I totally get the wing surf thing. So for me now kitefoil is about fast freerace high performance foiling and wingfoil is about crappy kite conditions and surf/swell riding. Best ROI of any gear I have ever bought.

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Jugglajon
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby Jugglajon » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:55 am

coming from pure kite background, I've just had my first session under the wing. 120l slingshot windfoil board with a spaceskate 65 attached. Can certainly feel the potential but will need to give my knees a rest.. Need to get my axis 100 underneath it but don't have tuttle connecter for it. Looking forward to my next session. 100kg with wasp 4m and space skate 65, feels like I need at least 20knots *at the moment

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pierre.d
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby pierre.d » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:03 pm

Hi Peter
4 years of kite foiling just jumped on the wing, winging 90% of the time now
kitefoil is just for sub 15 knots now

in term of wave riding much better experience ! I was addicted to supfoiling before
my prefered front wing is the gong xl pro, 2,4 l , 1900-1700 cm2, 92 cm span
tried my big wave alpine wing 1200cm2 without much success, so no hope to use the same wings,
a 1200 with more volume and high aspect ratio might work but it will be boring with a kite.

I am reducing the board sizes,started at 6.3 130l, then 5.8 110l which are supfoil boards
and now going to 5 feet, 90l (not supable for me anymore)

I believe that the sails and foil will progress quickly , so the speed should be comparable to a big wave kitefoil , but it is not the main point, winging a small shop of 2 feets is already a wave to surf, a lot of fun!
when you have 4 feets you are in big wave riding :D

I think it is impossible to reuse kitefoil equipment , but you can use the same board and foil for supfoiling and winging with 2 mast sizes.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:19 pm

Thanks Pierre.

Which 2 mast sizes do you mean (like) for supfoiling and wingfoil on the same board?

An 80 cm for winging and 65 cm for SUPFoil, or?

Isnt the 65 okay in shallow water and small waves, or too little room for error in general when winging so an 80 better?

8) Peter

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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby Slyde » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:42 am

For winging 90cm seems good or you breach too much, but for SUP foiling 75cm is my go to. Its really hard to pop up a 90cm mast in surf. I think it has something to do with the wave energy being near the surface. Tow surfers can use 90cm. Dont know how the DW boys can paddle up on a 90cm mast. They are super-human athletes.
Peter its time you joined the revolution :)

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:25 am

I am on my way, and friends got gear I can use too till I get my own.

It seems the general consensus is the short 65 cm masts are no good for winging (made for SUP foil), and you gotta go longer.

I wont use it as a SUP foil anyways.

Thanks for the hints :thumb:

8) Peter

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bragnouff
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Re: Wingsurf/wingfoil, foilwing size

Postby bragnouff » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:11 am

Today I finally managed to get a good session on the water. So far, my 3 previous attempts on the water were in the shitty wind directions that we cannot kite on, and that made everything pretty hard. But when it was good winds from right direction, I would not think twice and use my kitefoiling gear, as it wins in every possible way, so wingfoiling stagnated badly. Plenty of sessions on a mountainboard though. Anyway, with a half healed rib injury, I can't kite at the moment, so I gave wingfoiling a go in some of those decent steady winds and most of my stability issues were gone, the 105l SUP didn't feel that small anymore for my 100kg, and most of all I managed to fly consistently on all sides on my GoFoil Kai (~1200cm2) / 24" mast, which is what I use for kite foiling. And it felt much less draggy than the bigger foil I had briefly tried before. Granted there was probably 20kts today... and no shortage of juice in the handles before take off, but it's nice to know that I don't HAVE TO buy a massive foil just for that. Just need to be more efficient at building up speed and pumping that MFer out of the surface.
So I guess, Peter, if you already have a surf foil for kiting, there's no harm in trying to use that, with very likely success, specially if you're not as heavy as I am.


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