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Bigger wing is more difficult

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kit3surfer
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Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby kit3surfer » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:10 pm

Hi,
I wnted to upgrade my duotone carve 950 with the duotone surf 1250 wing because I thought tricks would be easier at lower speed and with more lift. But unfortunately everything is more difficult with the bigger big. Even simple jibes doesn't work as good as with the 950 wing - lots of breching from the wing and falling afterwards. Riding small chop waves is way more fun and even some cutbacks downwind are easy, but takeoff is a pain in light wind with pocket board. Either I have too much backfoot pressure and do the rodeo or too much frontfoot pressure and nosedive in the chop. Maybe I have to slide the foil to the very back of the board.
Otherwise speed is nearly the same, upwind also and riding in general feels also very good. So except of waveriding I see no benefit in bigger wings after my first light wind session.

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:57 pm

You are correct, when used to the medium wing, a bigger one will be more difficult for most riders.

But so would a smaller one, or maybe even just a different one same size.

So much fine muscle memory control, that ANY different wing will be harder at first.

You should quickly get used to this though, and be able to do everything on both.

Agree with you, apart from waves, no benefits in general with bigger than 1000 cm2 for the average weight, not really easier either :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby junebug » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Try moving the foil back. A bigger wing will have more lift than you are used to, and moving the foil back will require less front pressure from the same stance. That should make adapting easier.

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby jyka » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:56 pm

One thing what made a fast foil easier when training in the beginning, is that you can cruise slowly upwind without foiling and then get more speed. With a large wing, you can't do that and you will drift easily back to shore/downwind.
But when you get on foil (like you do) big wing is much easier in everything..

kit3surfer
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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby kit3surfer » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:51 pm

Thanks for the Replys. Yes I will try to move foil to the back, but my main Problem is the wingtip breaching while jibing. Any technique tips for that?

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:08 am

kit3surfer wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:51 pm
Thanks for the Replys. Yes I will try to move foil to the back, but my main Problem is the wingtip breaching while jibing. Any technique tips for that?
Lower the board closer to the water when you gybe.

How long is your mast?

Are you using straps? You'll need to adjust your CoG relative to the lift, so play with moving your mast back or your straps forward ... if you can.

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby RalphOz » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:24 am

I foil with the slingshot infinity 76 which is a big wing on an alien air. I had this difficulty when first using a 90cm mast, not so much so on the 60cm mast it came with.
I found going strapless to be the best fix as you really need to move your feet around. However, I find water starting this rig pretty hard, it wont stay on its side. So I now use 2 front straps and leave my back foot free. I have to move it right to the side sometimes to prevent the sideways lift, after a while it comes naturally.
I must admit I find the foot switch hard, as if you're not really slick the sideways lift can be deadly, so I spend quite a bit of time riding toeside.
I've tried the space skate wing and its not an issue, but you have to use more kite power which is a downside for me.

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby kit3surfer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:46 am

My mast is 90cm and I ride strapless. I will see if moving backwards helps with wingtip breaching...
@ralph: normally breaching should be easier avoided with a longer mast. Do you have an idea why not with you?

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby drsurf » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:09 pm

Hi kit3surfer.
A number of reasons you breach with your larger surf foil:
As mentioned by others, your weight is too far back. If you are falling backwards when you breach you are likely to be too far back on the board.

Your kite is too big. With a surf wing such as you have, you only need power to get out of the water, you don't need much power when you're up on the foil. The whole idea of a surf foil is to let the waves, be they wind chop or decent swell give you some power. If your kite is too powerful you'll outrun the waves and accelerate down the face often losing control. The aim is also to have a kite that drifts really well so you can surf with the foil.
The kite I mainly use now on my surf foil is a Flysurfer Peak4. These inexpensive kites have phenomenal drift and massive depower making the foil much easier to manage especially in gusty winds.

Your stabiliser needs adjusting. On my Moses 533 surf foil I found a small shim or under the appropriate end of the stabiliser, (depending on whether it's located above or below the fuselage), can neutralise excessive lift from the front wing. The mechanics of this is to tilt the stabiliser so it is reducing the amount of lift imparted to the front wing. If you google around you'll find more info on this with diagrams to explain it better. I'm only 65kg and figured that the standard setup on a foil is for a weight of approx 75kg+. So I neutralised some of the unnecessary lift on my front wing via a stabiliser shim.

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Re: Bigger wing is more difficult

Postby kit3surfer » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:25 pm

Thanks for the help. i just come back from a short session where I put the mast totally to the back (before I Always had it in the middle of the tracksystem). And guess what, it did the trick - thanks again, so much easier and no more breaching with the wingtips. Maybe it was even a bit to far back, because I experienced more touchdowns than normally. I think I will put the mast next time in between the middle and the back, but it depends maybe also on the wind conditions. Today I was way underpowered. With more wind, there will surely also be more lift. After gybing I had to pump upwind a couple of times to not get slack lines - but with the bigger wing, this worked not bad.


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