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Moses 633 questions

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windmlv
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Moses 633 questions

Postby windmlv » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:39 pm

I have been riding the 633 with the 91cm mast for about one month.
A couple of questions:
Any comments on the 91 mast vs 101? I don't have to worry about depth at all where I foil.
I ride in small to medium swell/chop only, not really flat water or surfable waves.

The fuselage is the "Stringy" which moves the front wing back.
Any noticeable difference in riding the regular Moses fuselage? ( other than mast position)

Thanks, M

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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby cwood » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:18 am

Sweet spot is 100cm in my mind but not far off 91. Just more forgiving on breaches etc. Shorter will always be stiffer....subtle but noticeable.

With Moses fuse, the center of gravity needs to go forward....and if you don't have enough adjustment in straps or mast position you need to shim mast to fuse or stabilizer. What you have is optimal.

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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby Foil » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:34 pm

cwood wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:18 am
Sweet spot is 100cm in my mind but not far off 91. Just more forgiving on breaches etc. Shorter will always be stiffer....subtle but noticeable.

With Moses fuse, the center of gravity needs to go forward....and if you don't have enough adjustment in straps or mast position you need to shim mast to fuse or stabilizer. What you have is optimal.
The Moses 91 cm is much softer than the 101cm, the 91 is not great, so soft, many more layers less of carbon in its make up, I would never go back to a 91cm moses
you don't notice so much when your learning
but later when loading it up it's just too soft
I thought mine was seriously bad, and when I switched to the 101cm I then knew I was right about the 91cm.

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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby cwood » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:10 am

Foil wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:34 pm
cwood wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:18 am
Sweet spot is 100cm in my mind but not far off 91. Just more forgiving on breaches etc. Shorter will always be stiffer....subtle but noticeable.

With Moses fuse, the center of gravity needs to go forward....and if you don't have enough adjustment in straps or mast position you need to shim mast to fuse or stabilizer. What you have is optimal.
The Moses 91 cm is much softer than the 101cm, the 91 is not great, so soft, many more layers less of carbon in its make up, I would never go back to a 91cm moses
you don't notice so much when your learning
but later when loading it up it's just too soft
I thought mine was seriously bad, and when I switched to the 101cm I then knew I was right about the 91cm.
Interesting, just assumed the shorter would be stiffer. My Girlfriend rides a 90 cm but I've never tried it.

Foil
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Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
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101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby Foil » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:18 am

cwood wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:10 am
Foil wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:34 pm
cwood wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:18 am
Sweet spot is 100cm in my mind but not far off 91. Just more forgiving on breaches etc. Shorter will always be stiffer....subtle but noticeable.

With Moses fuse, the center of gravity needs to go forward....and if you don't have enough adjustment in straps or mast position you need to shim mast to fuse or stabilizer. What you have is optimal.
The Moses 91 cm is much softer than the 101cm, the 91 is not great, so soft, many more layers less of carbon in its make up, I would never go back to a 91cm moses
you don't notice so much when your learning
but later when loading it up it's just too soft
I thought mine was seriously bad, and when I switched to the 101cm I then knew I was right about the 91cm.
Interesting, just assumed the shorter would be stiffer. My Girlfriend rides a 90 cm but I've never tried it.
lightweight riders may not notice the difference, same goes for newbies, neither may load the mast up like a heavyweight or an experienced rider going hard and fast into turns-waves or turbulent water
turn your board upside down on the grass with the mast and wings attached, grip the back and front wing and try and "screw" the mast in and out of the board, 45deg of twist or more is a little shocking, i thought mine might have been a bad mast, but no, I tested a few others that had said to me they thought they may have a dodgy 91cm mast, they are all like that.
the 82cm mast is stiffer, make up of the layers have fixed this.
read the specs for the masts on the moses web site, some specs show the carbon sheet layers used in the production of the different lengths, i think its 20 for the 91cm and 25 sheets for the 101cm

also its worth remembering this 91 cm mast was fine when used more gently with the older standard moses wings of 550 and the like, the 633 had not yet been invented, but then these large surf style wings came in and the 91 mast was at times subjected to forces that can overwhelm the old 91cm, the 101cm is much stiffer and can cope well with the bendy forces, but the 101cm still moves around a lot when you do the static test above, maybe a little flex is good, like a good shock absorber on a rally car, but change that good shock absorber for a cheap item off a cheap fiat 500 and that rally car is going to get out of shape very quickly

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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby Wazza Foil » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:30 am

My experience as a very average foiler.
72 cm Moses carbon mast using 683, 790 and 873 with no noticeable issues in light wind and flat water.
I have foiled the 683 on a 90cm Slingshot aluminum mast in 20 plus knots and all very good.
I use a 62 cm aluminium mast with the 873 wing for wind winging and SUP foiling and all good for my 77kg.

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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby windmlv » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:19 pm

Thank you all for your comments. Most appreciated.
Interesting about the differences between the 91cm and 101cm masts.

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Bidello
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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby Bidello » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:26 pm

Foil wrote: lightweight riders may not notice the difference, same goes for newbies, neither may load the mast up like a heavyweight or an experienced rider going hard and fast into turns-waves or turbulent water
turn your board upside down on the grass with the mast and wings attached, grip the back and front wing and try and "screw" the mast in and out of the board, 45deg of twist or more is a little shocking, i thought mine might have been a bad mast, but no, I tested a few others that had said to me they thought they may have a dodgy 91cm mast, they are all like that.
the 82cm mast is stiffer, make up of the layers have fixed this.
read the specs for the masts on the moses web site, some specs show the carbon sheet layers used in the production of the different lengths, i think its 20 for the 91cm and 25 sheets for the 101cm

also its worth remembering this 91 cm mast was fine when used more gently with the older standard moses wings of 550 and the like, the 633 had not yet been invented, but then these large surf style wings came in and the 91 mast was at times subjected to forces that can overwhelm the old 91cm, the 101cm is much stiffer and can cope well with the bendy forces, but the 101cm still moves around a lot when you do the static test above, maybe a little flex is good, like a good shock absorber on a rally car, but change that good shock absorber for a cheap item off a cheap fiat 500 and that rally car is going to get out of shape very quickly
Many thanks for sharing your views on the two sizes I’m torn between at the moment.

However I’ve got to ask: 45 deg torsion is surely a typo?

Apart from that, how do you rate the 111?

Cheers

Foil
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Local Beach: NewBrighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool for 6 months in summer
Flag beach on fuerteventura for 6 months in winter.
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach fuerteventura, off season/6months
Home - NewBrighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 120,carbon 2020 edition
101cm + 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633/483 on a 701 fuse
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9 +11mtr
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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby Foil » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:17 pm

Bidello wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:26 pm


Many thanks for sharing your views on the two sizes I’m torn between at the moment.

However I’ve got to ask: 45 deg torsion is surely a typo?

Apart from that, how do you rate the 111?

Cheers
do the test, but stand on the board to secure it.
you will gasp at the amount you can twist the the mast when forcing round the wings, its just so soft, even just bending it to and fro.
and then try the hard screw left or right then let go, and watch it rebound back and sort of shiver and shake around is the energy is released.

I don't own the 111 mast so can't comment.
but I would maybe like to own one.

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Re: Moses 633 questions

Postby Bidello » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:21 pm

Foil wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:17 pm
Bidello wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:26 pm


Many thanks for sharing your views on the two sizes I’m torn between at the moment.

However I’ve got to ask: 45 deg torsion is surely a typo?

Apart from that, how do you rate the 111?

Cheers
do the test, but stand on the board to secure it.
you will gasp at the amount you can twist the the mast when forcing round the wings, its just so soft, even just bending it to and fro.
and then try the hard screw left or right then let go, and watch it rebound back and sort of shiver and shake around is the energy is released.

I don't own the 111 mast so can't comment.
but I would maybe like to own one.
I’ve done the test on my 71 and it hardly moves at all, possibly a few degrees.

Now I can imagine an 91 cm mast, being of different construction and all, to wind up somewhat more, but honestly 45 degrees it’s 1/8 of a turn! You’re definitely positive about that figure?

Also not sure what you mean by the hard screw?

Thanks anyway👍


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