Give it a Break, I can buy 5 Pansh kites in all sizes for correct wind ranges for winds 6 to 50mph, for the price of one Flysurfer Kite with limited range. I can beat the hell out of them on the snow or water, if I have a kitemare 1mile out ditch the kite swim in safe, for 300$ cost who cares. Mod them, Trash them, Jump them, travel with them. Great Kites.
Lets compare Core XR6 to a LF NRG or Switch Element 6 Personally I think the NRG and the element are better Jumping kites but Half the price and better build. Oh dear their not Expensive German kite they are crap.
So what Pansh is like 80% as good as a flysurfer. Is a C kite different than a Delta, ya Da!
I would rather have 1 excellent kite (Chrono V3, Sonic 3, Soul, Hyperlink V2 etc), instead of 5 kites that are not very good.
Just my personal opinion, everyone will make up their own minds. A bad kite can completely ruin a session, in which case, what is the point.
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I think this conversation could go forever with the posters who do have proof of their preferred kite capabilities out of the bag and their ability to video/photo the evidence and those who profess such evidence is irrelevant if the kite or related gear is half the price or less and their say so is evidence enough.
Unfortunately evidence is usually the proof required by most sane people when making the purchase of an unknown product. There are many sayings such as "Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten" and being a person who "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing". These phrases often come about by hard lessons in trying to get the cheapest product or service and finding out it wasn't worth it in the long run.
There are companies who are transparent about who they are and what they do even at opposite ends of the price spectrum. As a Flysurfer reseller it gives myself and customers a lot of confidence having one of the main people in the organisation, Armin Harich, publicly answer questions on many forums and explain and demonstrate his products on various video posts. Likewise the low cost, high quality French company Gong, whom I have no association with, who's videos feature the main people in the company. Not only the main bearded man Patrice but also Diane the Office Manager and Marine the webmaster. There must be a company policy that you have the passion for the sport to get the job See below
Meanwhile after all these years of seeing Pansh mentioned I am no closer to knowing who they are, why do they do what they do, is there any passion?, how do they do it, ie product R&D, and where is the evidence that their products measure up reasonably to their competitors. For all I know it's a Chinese company using free prison labour in forced labour camps to produce copies of other companies expensive R&D efforts with minor tweaks. I would like to believe this isn't so but there's no transparency, not even the slightest effort to contradict this notion. The "About Us" on their site is anonymous and looks like it was written by the marketing department.
In my experience, a good quality product that delivers on its promises, straight out of the bag or showroom is worth paying for. You get your money back in terms of enjoyment every time you use it and if you do sell the item, it holds its resale value. And you don't have to pay big money, just look at the Gong range of kites, foils and wings.
By the way snarky comments and insults diminish the poster, whatever product they're writing about. It just turns the focus back on the poster... and not in a good way.
So Drsurf, simple question do you go into your local walmart or whatever store and ask these questions about the wall to wall of nothing but Chinese products?
NO
This allegation of Pansh copying is made all the time, there is no evidence of it. If they did their kites would be better. However I do know for a fact that copying goes on with some well established brands.
It may astound you but like many things kites are a Chinese invention. There is absolutely nothing wrong with copying, it is only this strange pause in history that we have made all sorts of weird rules on it. The rules on copying we have are severely hampering innovation and also allow the insane concentration of wealth and power we are witnessing. Owning thoughts is such a wonderful idea, pity no one owns that one.
How transparent are some of the brands that hide their designers or have multiple brands in one house. What about publishing all the costs they pay to the factories? What factories they use. Who owns and runs the factories? What are their employees temperatures when they made your kite?
From what I know of Pansh the guy behind it is Chinese and likes making kites. You can see pictures and videos of them testing and prototyping kites here and there. It was rumored he ran a factory making kites for one of the brands. Why don't you email them and try to get some info.
Seriously though people can buy what they want, these things really don't matter. What matters is the product. If for whatever reason your mind can come up with you don't want to buy or try the product I really don't care, China doesn't care, nobody cares. I mean seriously videos or no videos, nobody cares. Deniska is just trolling.
Foilholio, I understand your need to defend your personal beliefs but don't set up straw men about Chinese products.
I'm fully aware that most brands regardless of their price range are made in China or have substantial components made in China, that includes Ozone, Flysurfer, Gong, Naish et al. Also I'm aware of the copying that goes on between brands of virtually all products on the market today. That's not the point, there is sufficient transparency about that as it's mandatory to disclose such information especially with regard to most OECD countries. It's also not hard to find that information from other sources as well. I have no problem with Chinese products especially from companies who are required to disclose and investigate manufacturing operations with regard to health, safety, human rights, pollution, climate change etc. I also live in a country that should be doing much better than it is on a number of contemporary metrics.
I'm coming from the point of view as if I was an intending purchaser and looking for evidence of the performance and quality of a product such as Pansh whom I reiterate I don't have a set against, just insufficient evidential information. Your comments, and I don't mean to be brutal, are very defensive and evasive. If you make claims about what a kite can do out of the bag, the way most people buy a kite, demonstrate them. If your kiting isn't photogenic enough, get someone who is and show them on the kite. I have had my partner take a very ordinary video of myself lightwind foiling to show what I meant by light wind and publicly posted it. It wasn't great but it showed what I was talking about.
You've also made claims about your skill with a foil kite riding waves I think it was? Like to see the video. You know what they say on the various forums "if you haven't got a picture/video it didn't happen".
Oh, and people do care, I care. I care very much. If I didn't care you wouldn't be reading this ...
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For all I know it's a Chinese company using free prison labour in forced labour camps to produce copies of other companies expensive R&D efforts with minor tweaks. I
I think this conversation could go forever with the posters who do have proof of their preferred kite capabilities out of the bag and their ability to video/photo the evidence and those who profess such evidence is irrelevant if the kite or related gear is half the price or less and their say so is evidence enough.
Auroras can Jump, I posted a Video with 4 jumps in 1 minute, Vid still trashed that the kite was unable to jump go figure.
I think this conversation could go forever with the posters who do have proof of their preferred kite capabilities out of the bag and their ability to video/photo the evidence and those who profess such evidence is irrelevant if the kite or related gear is half the price or less and their say so is evidence enough.
Yes Pansh is actively collecting video evidence of their kites. They have often given discounts to purchasers who have posted videos. So you keep claiming that there's no one here to give video evidence, but it would be redundant to do so. And any video isn't going to have a wind meter every to me to tell you how good the wind was or how turbulent it was. So even then you're going to really need to take any advice with a grain of salt, even video backed advice. Hopefully A-log stays out of the review process as we all know he really doesn't like Pansh even though he hasn't even flown one. I'm sure he could make a video berating an A-15 to the point where it would look like the biggest piece of junk on the market. And then you can find videos showing it having as good as, if not better capabilities than other expensive brands.
There are many sayings such as "Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten" and being a person who "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing". These phrases often come about by hard lessons in trying to get the cheapest product or service and finding out it wasn't worth it in the long run.
The opposite is also absolutely true, and often times more of a risk in purchasing a more expensive product. I purchased ozone because I thought they were the best quality and would have the best customer service, along with the best design. I was sadly disappointed in all of those things, and I wasted some money on their kites. Turned out HQ, at the time had better kites which were cheaper to buy. And where are you most likely to find that's saying plastered on a wall? Maybe a luxury car dealer? The sign in an economy car dealership could easily be "Do the math".
In my experience, a good quality product that delivers on its promises, straight out of the bag or showroom is worth paying for. You get your money back in terms of enjoyment every time you use it and if you do sell the item, it holds its resale value.
Try to sell an ozone Summit V1. Sure, you may be getting more money for it then resale on a Pansh, but you're screwing the guy because it is a terrible kite compared to most Pansh kites. If you haven't been screwed paying too much money for something, because you thought there was quality or customer service included in that extra cost, then you haven't been on this Earth long enough.
By the way snarky comments and insults diminish the poster, whatever product they're writing about. It just turns the focus back on the poster... and not in a good way.
Making assumptions about a kite company that you admit you know nothing about their products, has the same effect you described above.
See below
