I sold my flysurfer soul in favour of

[nothing2seehere]

In the case of this thread, the OP decided that the ultra light version of the Pansh A15 was 'better' at staying in the air in marginal gusty wind. My point was that 'better' is a contextual term that depends on the characteristic and the desired result so we should probably use more definite terms like 'higher performance'. It was probably unnecessary though so my apologies. Just a little stir crazy from being indoors too much.

I am buying into the pansh 'lifestyle'* as a learning experiment (in much the same way 17yo me bought into the 0.9l Ford Fiesta life whilst secretly desiring an Audi UR Quattro because I had to learn the skills before progressing). I have already learnt how to line splice and even if I don't get any money back after a year it'll still be the least depreciating kite I have ever owned (including second hand) as the original buy in was $119 but I'm well aware that what I'm getting will work on a foil or a landboard and not really anywhere else.

*lifestyle of endless small tuning changes

[cor]

Soul is a big air boosting machine ('Soul' holds EU jump record 28woo-m from *flat* water, WR 33woo-m is from *wave kickers*), Pansh has a lot to catch if you consider it to be at the same segment as the Soul.

Exactly. Soul is amazing for boosting. Also, it has a great windrange and is very stable. I am flying the 10m from 7 to 25 knots on a hf, in gusty lake conditions. What about the pansh? How does this kite excel in jumping and gusty conditions?

I am not saying that the pansh isn't good, because I simply don't know. Maybe it's even better than the Soul! But what bothering me is that everytime a foil kite is discussed here, the focus seems to be on one aspect of foil kites only: Light wind capability.

[downunder]

Hmmm,

I hold records on my local. Do no remember how many Woo awards.

So.

To cut the chase, I do not boost better with the Soul. Period. This was proven. 11m Edge boosts better than 10m Soul for ME, because I can redirect faster and have huge experience with it.

However, timing is of essence here. Riding Edges for last 6 years, of course I can't match riding time with the Soul. Maybe in 6 years with the Soul will outboost the Edge.

Hence, one can claim whatever about the performance of the kite but unless one is superhuman like Olly Bridge, you are dreaming...

The real value for my style of riding was in the Edge.

Harsh reality is that what works for some does not mean anything for others.

Just to be clear here, the biggest boosts ever were done by rider on Epic Screamer. Same rider on Soul, not so big boosting. Think why is that. It just confirms the timing issue. And for that takes years to master for many.

Do not be surprised if a15 outboost the Soul. It is the skill mastered over the time.

[nothing2seehere]

Soul is a big air boosting machine ('Soul' holds EU jump record 28woo-m from *flat* water, WR 33woo-m is from *wave kickers*), Pansh has a lot to catch if you consider it to be at the same segment as the Soul.

Exactly. Soul is amazing for boosting. Also, it has a great windrange and is very stable. I am flying the 10m from 7 to 25 knots on a hf, in gusty lake conditions. What about the pansh? How does this kite excel in jumping and gusty conditions?

I am not saying that the pansh isn't good, because I simply don't know. Maybe it's even better than the Soul! But what bothering me is that everytime a foil kite is discussed here, the focus seems to be on one aspect of foil kites only: Light wind capability.

So, Pansh is a brand. They have some kites. The water kites seem to have a niche that they work in - mostly with some modifications from standard. Lets not pretend here, none of them will have the all around performance of the Soul/FRS/Hyperlink. But you MIGHT be able to find one that fits your niche. In my case I want something to freeride foil with that is light. I haven't had a chance to test but early indications are that the Genesis can be made to handle nicely for this task. I'm not assuming it will be a better than other options (Ultra/peak etc) but then its always a bit of a balancing act in your choice of kite and rather than get a kite that does it all, I can keep my specialised kites for big air(okay more like medium air in my case) and get something cheap to do the job.

Normally it might not be worth the effort of making it fly properly. The lucky thing for me at the moment is that this kite is getting tested by others and I can piggyback on the coat tails of that development without having to put the time in with the testing and save a whole load of time.

^^ I'd be personally surprised if the A15 outboosts the soul. Its lower aspect so starts with a disadvantage off the block.

[Foil]

I am not saying that the pansh isn't good, because I simply don't know. Maybe it's even better than the Soul! But what bothering me is that everytime a foil kite is discussed here, the focus seems to be on one aspect of foil kites only: Light wind capability.

correct,
so many people just refer to Foil kites as light wind tools,
and the higher end better ones costing way more than the same size lei.
but the high end modern foils are much more than light wind kings,
the top end is unbelievable (range) jumping is better than most lei kites, and in very light winds are better than any lei,
cost is high for one kite, but one decent up to date foil kite replaces 2 or even 3 lei sizes, so great value if you consider that in.

[downunder]

Jumping is better only in skilled hands. C'mon. Get the Edge and I can guarantee some riders will outjump it with any other kite if rider is not skilled in Edge.

In very light it's lame to compare foils with LEI's anyways. High winds and 99.9% will ride rock solid leis. It's so niche to ride a foil in 30-35kn that if just confirms the rule.

We do not see a high aspect kites on Kota, do we? Tools for the job man....

In visit to a friendly tree and any foil is destined for huge expense. As a matter of fact Pansh goes straight to bin if ripped, Soul does not, so can be easy over $3000 investment if ripped (total cost).

Luckily I've got my Soil for a fraction of the price, so do not need to protect my expensive investment as some other people

The more expensive investment, the more protective we are. No one says Ferrari is sh.t, do they?

We buy something cheap, it must be shyte than.

[nothing2seehere]

I am not saying that the pansh isn't good, because I simply don't know. Maybe it's even better than the Soul! But what bothering me is that everytime a foil kite is discussed here, the focus seems to be on one aspect of foil kites only: Light wind capability.

correct,
so many people just refer to Foil kites as light wind tools,
and the higher end better ones costing way more than the same size lei.
but the high end modern foils are much more than light wind kings,
the top end is unbelievable (range) jumping is better than most lei kites, and in very light winds are better than any lei,
cost is high for one kite, but one decent up to date foil kite replaces 2 or even 3 lei sizes, so great value if you consider that in.

This is the bit I'm interested in. With the exception of the flysurfer kites, I normally see reviews talking about needing to change down a lot sooner on foil kites. Even this review (https://www.kiteworldmag.com/gear/ozone-hyperlink-v1/) of a top brand foil kite talks of a 7m for 20-25 knots. Thats top end of 11m LEI territory so it looks as though the top end of the kites aren't great when you read the reviews.

Maybe the problem is that the magazine reviewers aren't regular foil kiters so they don't want to launch and land in high winds (or encourage readers to launch/land in high winds) but flysurfer seem almost unique in displaying riding in strong winds on the foils (that I have seen anyway)

[Foil]

I am not saying that the pansh isn't good, because I simply don't know. Maybe it's even better than the Soul! But what bothering me is that everytime a foil kite is discussed here, the focus seems to be on one aspect of foil kites only: Light wind capability.

correct,
so many people just refer to Foil kites as light wind tools,
and the higher end better ones costing way more than the same size lei.
but the high end modern foils are much more than light wind kings,
the top end is unbelievable (range) jumping is better than most lei kites, and in very light winds are better than any lei,
cost is high for one kite, but one decent up to date foil kite replaces 2 or even 3 lei sizes, so great value if you consider that in.

This is the bit I'm interested in. With the exception of the flysurfer kites, I normally see reviews talking about needing to change down a lot sooner on foil kites. Even this review (https://www.kiteworldmag.com/gear/ozone-hyperlink-v1/) of a top brand foil kite talks of a 7m for 20-25 knots. Thats top end of 11m LEI territory so it looks as though the top end of the kites aren't great when you read the reviews.

Maybe the problem is that the magazine reviewers aren't regular foil kiters so they don't want to launch and land in high winds (or encourage readers to launch/land in high winds) but flysurfer seem almost unique in displaying riding in strong winds on the foils (that I have seen anyway)

it is true that to get skilled on foil kites does take a long time for some guys,(me)
after using leis for 18 years, and with a few short seasons using rubbish foil kites in around the 2009 period, I only started thinking about going back to revisit foil kites once the soul started causing people to talk about it being the best brand model available for free riders, either on a Ttip or foil board.

I did not believe all the hype, but I watched the guys who were buying them with growing interest,
it was only when one of my sailing buddies bought a new set of Ozone Chrono v3 ultralights to replace his old set of v2 chrono foil kites, and he was amazed just how good this new model was for the free ride side of foiling,
I got to get a go on his kites quite a few times but it was hard to form an opinion, as for me they were just so different, scary even,
so technical to launch/land and fly correctly compared to a LEI kite,
but after many sessions and many embarrassing (not my kite) but successful deep water relaunches with no swim ins, I found some big cash, and started to build a quiver of Chronos v3 ultralights, my 13 and 15 being my most used.

As my skill increased the need for the 15 chrono disappeared, soon after the 13mtr was surplus as I stopped using that as well, the 11 mtr and 9mtr chrono v3 ul were really showing me just how much fun a foil kite could be, as jumping was now like a drug,
but many weeks later I was really getting the hang of using the 9mtr in winds so light it shocked me and many others who were used to me using a much bigger foil kite,
continuas day after day use of my 9mtr foil kite ensured I was dialed in to its use from silly light winds to blowing hard, the 9 never complains, the boosting just gets more silly high.
I am not anymore than average skilled on foil kites, there is one guy I know who lives near flag beach,
good free ride foil board rider who only has a 7mtr hyperlink v1 ultra light(Gunnar sold him his old kite),
he is not light, 105kg, and is a joy to watch in almost any wind flag delivers. how it gets going on his 7mtr foil in winds he really shouldn't be able to is amazing, the other guy I know who lives on flag beach 6 months a year is Tom Courts dad, Anthony, he now has good foil kite skills, last season just gone he only used his 9mtr hyperlink 9mtr, another one kite quiver guy!

looks like I will be doing the same for the 6mths I have booked for flag beach, just need to buy myself another 9mtr Ozone Chrono v3 Ulight, just in case,
because if you are going to damage any gear anywhere its at Flag beach, I have been lucky for 3 years. it cant last!

[S2000kitesurfer]

The A15 after Jackomixer is just alot more fun to use feeling like a tube kite.
Boosting will not be as good as the soul definitely but at the price point definitely not bad. With the flysurfer soul i was excited to get out using the Foil in light wind.Now I'm excited to fly the kite as well .

[15toeside]

I suggest you try the alt jackomixer and No C mod