Moses 679

[tibogoderis]

Hi all,

I recently bought myself the moses 679 with 82 carbon mast. I'v been using it 3 times now. After the session I noticed the 2 the screws that connect the mast and fuselage are loose. Before ever session I tighten them really well.

Am I not tighten it well enough? Or is it because of vibration de screws are getting loose? I'm scared I would loose fuselage and wings while kiting.

Tibo

[grigorib]

Tighten the bolts again up after first and second sessions and they will stay put. Don’t overtighten them - you don’t want to extract mast inserts like teeth

[Sbrinckman]

Hi Tibogoderis, it had been mentioned before.

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2406412&hilit=Loose

[nothing2seehere]

Did it come with anti seize paste for the screws?

Not Moses, but my aluminium hydrofoil had a similar problem that went away when I applied the anti seize paste to the screws. Whether its the paste stopping it loosening as it thickens over the threads or whether its the difference in tactile feel that means you tighten up more I can't say?

[cwood]

very common on Moses fuselages. If it's any comfort, I have never had a screw come out completely in hundreds of sessions.....loose yes but never out.....and the forces of course keep the parts pushed together. That said, I have found that a careful and progressive back and forth tightening front to back to front (etc) that rocks the fuse down onto the mast, with some body force down results in the front one staying tight more often. Also note, that it is possible to end up with a seemingly tight connection that is skewed a tiny bit, which actually can change your CG (center of gravity due to angle between the mast and fuse connection not being factory intended). I always eyeball the top of the mast foot where it sticks forward and aft in relation to the top of the fuse to ensure they are equal. This may seem anal but I have seen on numerous masts where the foot that fits into the fuse is a bit chubby and it causes this potential skewed fit. Test your connection without screws....fit the fuse on and see if it rocks a bit with body weight down onto it onto the mast, or if it sits flat with no play whatsoever.

[tibogoderis]

2 sessions later now. I tried it by applying first some bodyweight in front and tightening the front screw, the same at the back. I noticed after 1 hour session the screws where still tight.
Not as tight as before the session but enough that it makes me feel comfortabel.

Thanks for all the tips!

[Foil]

2 sessions later now. I tried it by applying first some bodyweight in front and tightening the front screw, the same at the back. I noticed after 1 hour session the screws where still tight.
Not as tight as before the session but enough that it makes me feel comfortabel.

Thanks for all the tips!

and don't worry as the inserts are not just small items,they can't be pulled out, the large reinforcement part that is hidden inside the lower mast is huge, maybe 25 cm long and 10-15 cm wide, Check the x ray of the mast I have posted on this subject a few times before.
yes its a bit of a faff to get used to, a small routine of first making absolutely sure the mating surfaces are spotless, no tiny sand particles on the mating surfaces,
all threads rinsed clean,
washers in place every time, pinch up bolts evenly to two fingers pressure, and then rock back and forth on the wings to ensure the parts are seated correctly and then a final 3 finger tighten up of both bolts.
most times the bolts feel slightly looser after a long session or even a 30 minute short session, and less often they feel almost as tight, but never do they feel as tight as before hitting the water, but just keep to the routine and keep the surfaces spotless, not a problem, lock washers are not the answer, tried all washer types and the standard flat ones are the best.
remember to keep your oily hands off the wing and mast surfaces at all times, keep the covers on when you do the above.

[grandeand]

I too have noticed slackening of the previous waist. I also found some play between the mast wedge and the fuselage.
I tested the fuselage on a new mast and it fits perfectly (same depth of the wedge both front and rear) without any play even without screws.
instead with mine the front part of the wedge enters the fuselage about one mm more than the rear.
this is, in my opinion, a wrong method of construction.
because for Moses it should often be disassembled to avoid galvanic currents.
this does nothing but consume the wedge of the mast with subsequent games ...

[taiguy]

I had the same question earlier this season. As others have mentioned it's apparently a common and known issue. It happens more with my surf fuselage. The kite fuselage ends up with slightly loose screws and the surf fuselage ends up with pretty loose screws.

/shrug

[Foil]

This is the X-ray taken of the Moses mast, look closely to see the carbon outline shape which sits outside the alloy metal(bright image) of the reinforcing "plate"
Which is massive and can't be ripped out, it's this that other mast makers fail to get right and many have asked Moses to make Thiers for them and then they can re badge them with their own logos,
One way round this problem has been to make the mast and fuse as one piece, so getting round the problem of reinforcing that high stress area, over the years home builders have many a disaster trying this, as when they fail it looks terminal,
The joint area on the Moses mast is more like a metal to metal joint with a thick covering of carbon to keep it looking great.
But although the strength at that stress point has proven unburstable over the years it is still a tiny bit annoying that the screws try to wiggle free