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Who are the Wing foilers ?

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Eltreato
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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Eltreato » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:32 am

jatem wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:03 pm
Eltreato wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:12 pm
Windsurfing->kiteboarding->kitefoiling->windfoiling->wingfoiling for me. I'm still mostly windfoiling though.
What do you like about wind foiling, compared to kite foiling?
Great question. I like that when the city lifeguards show up in the summer I can still windfoil my guts out from the old windsurfing and small boat launch error whereas kiters are relegated to a beach with a dangerous wind shadow and rocky launch that's effectivly unusable at all but the lowest tides. Our beaches are super overcrowded in the summer, hence the kiting ban. I like that as a windsurfer it's way easier to become a windfoiler than it is for a kiteboarder to become a kitefoiler. The hardest part about kitefoiling for me was board management when body dragging, with windfoiling I just climb on uphaul and go, no awkward bodydragging with an ironing board. Most importanly, though it's the wind where I live, it is often short-lived and terrible. While the guys on the ram air kites can get going a couple knots earlier than me on the windfoil, when the wind tanks I can still float home, I got sick of the self-rescues with my single strut kite on the light wind days. One other bonus I recently discovered is that my windfoil board doubles as a wingfoil board, so I've been having fun with that too. If had better conditions locally ie, less crowded beaches, less annoying lifeguarding policies and better winds, I'd be happy to just kitefoil and I have a lot of respect for the guys here that put up with all the @$%^ at our spots to get out on the water and make it look easy.

oh one more thing, downwinding on a windfoil doesn't require me to worry about line tension, I can just flag the sail and ride the swell. Unfortunately it's so rarely good enough here for me to do this most of my foiling is flatwater.
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Flyboy
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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Flyboy » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:55 am

I thought wing surfing looked pretty stupid when I first saw it, but now I see video of good wingfoilers in good conditions, I totally see the appeal. The great innovation with kitesurfing was putting the wing at the end of 25 metre lines which enables the rider to generate apparent wind at will - jump, carve powered gybes etc. Foils generate so much speed because of minimal drag that, together with apparent wind from the kite, they allow planing (well, it's not really "planning") at very low wind speeds.

The speed of a kite foil allows you to ride swell (rather than breaking waves), but when you move on the swell (or waves) in the same direction as the wind it's very hard to avoid slack in the kite lines as you will inevitably be moving much faster than the wind speed. I can see that the wing foil avoids this problem by allowing you to use wind when you want it, but totally turn off the power when you don't. Simple. It seems to me that the situation most favourable to wing foiling is where there is a swell that starts well offshore & is combined with moderate (12 - 15 knots?) wind. Use the wing to foil out to the swell, pick it up & ride it in then wing back out. Nice.

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Slyde » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:42 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:55 am
. It seems to me that the situation most favourable to wing foiling is where there is a swell that starts well offshore & is combined with moderate (12 - 15 knots?) wind. Use the wing to foil out to the swell, pick it up & ride it in then wing back out. Nice.
Sort of, best conditions for winging are when its really windy cause thats when the swell is best. After a year on the wing my favourite conditions are 25-30 knots on a 2.8m wing. I still think that kitefoiling is better when it is 8-12 knots because the wing can be a bit boring in the lower range. Mid-range 15-20 pick either, they both rock. 20+ and the wing wins, no question. Kitefoiling in high winds has never been that fun. Main issue when its windy is getting off the beach through the shorebreak. You really need a spot that allows you to get away from the beach and ride the outer swells. Sadly most of us dont live in places with outer reef breaks. Solution ...downwinding...epic!

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Dwight » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:08 am

Former kite foiler, now only wing foil.

Wing foiling allows for a better wave riding experience. Even in bay chop, I can feel and ride the waves better than a kite foil. If waves are your pleasure in life, winging wins when it comes to foils.

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:11 am

Slyde wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:42 pm
Flyboy wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:55 am
. It seems to me that the situation most favourable to wing foiling is where there is a swell that starts well offshore & is combined with moderate (12 - 15 knots?) wind. Use the wing to foil out to the swell, pick it up & ride it in then wing back out. Nice.
Sort of, best conditions for winging are when its really windy cause thats when the swell is best. After a year on the wing my favourite conditions are 25-30 knots on a 2.8m wing. I still think that kitefoiling is better when it is 8-12 knots because the wing can be a bit boring in the lower range. Mid-range 15-20 pick either, they both rock. 20+ and the wing wins, no question. Kitefoiling in high winds has never been that fun. Main issue when its windy is getting off the beach through the shorebreak. You really need a spot that allows you to get away from the beach and ride the outer swells. Sadly most of us dont live in places with outer reef breaks. Solution ...downwinding...epic!
It's got to be very local conditions dependent. 10 - 18 knots is great with a kite & foil ... & accounts for probably 70% of "windy" days where I am. 22 knots plus is great with a kite & SB. I'm thinking that the ideal range for winging would be around 14 - 22 knots? There's decent swell in that range at my local spot, but waves aren't really going off. OK. "really windy cause that's when the swell is best" ... but I'm guessing it takes some time & practice to be able to manage those conditions with a wing.

What kind of wing/foil/board size do you need to get going in 14 knots?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:10 am

From 14 knots, any medium sized foil wing 1800 cm2 and bigger, and a 5 m2 wing, should do it :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Slyde » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:24 am

Yeah agree with Peter, it’s technique dependent too. With practice you can drop your low end to sub 10 knots with a 6. A 5 will get you going in 14 knots no problem with a bunch of different size foils once you know how.

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:56 pm

I have a Cabrinha race board that I had tracks mounted into, thinking at the time that I might use if for kite foiling. Turned out it's way too big for kite foiling, as it's impossible to water start on it (might be possible now I have experience, but in any case pointless). I'm wondering if it would do for wing foiling? I'm guessing it would be a hard board to learn with - not sure what the floatation is, but not that much. I imagine it would work for an experienced wing foiler.

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby pitbulldoug » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:21 pm

Surfer 50 yrs,kiter 20 yrs,5 yrs kite foiling,2-3 yrs supfoiling now 2-3 months wingfoiling and have not pumped my kites up since may when the winging addiction started but not saying I’m selling my kites nope still time and place for kiting especially kitefoiling as my low end kitefoiling is bit lower kitefoiling but getting pretty close winging now but bit hard being 225 lbs, really digging the crazy depower of the wing with little acceleration by feathering of wing on foil just a lot of fun and the fun really starts in the waves and swells!

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Re: Who are the Wing foilers ?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:25 pm

OK. So it's starting to get a little confusing.

Big promotion of Peak4s because they allow the ultimate in light wind float/drifting/depowered wave riding. However, are those advantages now being upstaged by the potential of winging?

For me, the big advantage of kite foiling is the ability to ride effortlessly in light winds - let's say 8 - 12 knots - up to 20 knots. Winging doesn't really seem that appealing in really light wind when there is no swell/waves? Winging seems to make the most sense when there are good swells to ride - flatwater winging doesn't seem that appealing.

In strong winds - let's say over 25 knots - I don't think I would want to be foiling at all. Kiting with a SB seems more dynamic & appealing.

This is all from watching videos - I haven't tried, so I'm only speculating. :-?

Also, I note that Gong are coming out with a range of inflatable boards for winging. This would seem to address the portability issue. It would seem logical that a well-designed inflatable board would work perfectly well for foiling.


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