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climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

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jumptheshark
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:22 pm

prop_joe wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:37 pm

imo this is the biggest problem climate change and most other current issue face, inabillity or lack of willing for honest discussion.
Pretty funny sentiment coming from a guy who posts shit like this in here.
prop_joe wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:54 pm

By 'green jobs' did you mean young children? :lol: ... youtube it, it's f**king creepy! Maybe he'll bring back segregation to :lol:... This is the guy the virtue signallers chose as theyre front man :o , this sh*t is too insane and funny to be real and yet it's happening. I really really hope he does a debate with Trump, will be hilarious i imagine.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. You either are a reasonable human willing to listen and debate a point with civility or your a partisan hack willing to debase the argument with red herrings from the gutter. Sadly showing your cards as the latter pretty much counts you out of the first.
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:35 pm

palmbeacher wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:17 pm
prop_joe wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:37 pm
palmbeacher wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:38 pm
Is this what you mean?

Reporter: The U.S. has 4% of the global population and 24% of the world’s COVID-19 death, how is that a success?

McEnany: We use different numbers
imo this is the biggest problem climate change and most other current issue face, inabillity or lack of willing for honest discussion.
Can you elaborate on this? Not sure I follow your train of thought.
Extremist people typically cannot comprehend unknowns. Thus those people will fill in the blank with the narrative that fits their emotional tendency. This is why climate scientists have such a bad reputation. Filling in the blank where an unknown exist, with something that supports their position, is unscientific and far too common on the left. The right typically fares no better as they will tend to cite the left as having filled in the blank with something that supports the left's position, but will not admit that an unknown means things could go either way.

And the middle gets buried in the bickering between those two sides, as does rationality and well warranted skepticism.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:36 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:22 pm
prop_joe wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:37 pm

imo this is the biggest problem climate change and most other current issue face, inabillity or lack of willing for honest discussion.
Pretty funny sentiment coming from a guy who posts shit like this in here.
How can you possibly think it's funny when someone points out the dishonesty of politicize arguments such as climate change? I think it's rather disgusting.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Matteo V » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:52 pm

palmbeacher wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:38 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:26 pm
palmbeacher wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:17 am


Nice try spreading misinformation. Trump must be proud of you.
Palmer, I think it is unlikely you mean that data collection in the second and third world is just as good as in the first world. I mean China has been caught falsifying its own data on this, and India admits it cannot possibly generate any reliable numbers.

So what do you mean???
Is this what you mean?

Reporter: The U.S. has 4% of the global population and 24% of the world’s COVID-19 death, how is that a success?

McEnany: We use different numbers
Let me try to spell it out for you so that you can grasp this concept.

The United States has first world capabilities of collection of data. And while there are political tendencies toward both sides, such as left-leaning in the medical fields, and some right-leaning in industry, the data which we have produced is not only the most comprehensive, but it is also able to be questioned by the people of the United States. And this is exactly what many people are doing right now. We are questioning the statistics gathered on the covid-19 disease and deaths that are attributed to it. Since there have been many instances of deaths being attributed to covid-19, when there was obviously comorbidity, or even blatantly another actual cause of death, there is room to question why these numbers are so high. And that is likely to reduce numbers of deaths actually being caused by covid-19.

In second and third world countries where no politicization of this disease exist, the means to collect data simply doesn't exist. When a 60 year old person dies in another country, it is much less likely for their death to be attributed to covid-19, even if they died while having tested positive for covid-19. Lack of politicization means that more rational thought among doctors, if any are available, who will cite a person as having died from a heart attack, instead of dying from a heart attack but attributing the death to covid-19 because they were positive for the virus. In these second and third world countries, there is also an inability to accurately test for covid-19. Thus when gathering data, another disease cannot be ruled out. Which leads to those deaths, which may have been the result of covid-19, not being ruled as being caused by covid-19. Given these set of parameters, it is very much rational to assume that these lower statistics in second and third world countries are due to unreported covid-19 deaths.

And then there are countries where this disease is politicized for one reason or another and there is a vested interest in the government artificially deflating the number of deaths. While China is not the only example of this, they are likely the most responsible for covering up actual deaths resulting from covid-19, and are certainly not reporting a death from a heart attack as being a result of covid-19 if there was simply a positive covid-19 test. We already have evidence that China has been greatly reducing their counts for political reasons, as they do with anything that puts the Chinese Communist Party in a bad light.

Does this now make sense to you?
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby palmbeacher » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:10 pm

Oh its the shithole countries defense. Got it.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby palmbeacher » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:15 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:35 pm
palmbeacher wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:17 pm
prop_joe wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:37 pm


imo this is the biggest problem climate change and most other current issue face, inabillity or lack of willing for honest discussion.
Can you elaborate on this? Not sure I follow your train of thought.
Extremist people typically cannot comprehend unknowns. Thus those people will fill in the blank with the narrative that fits their emotional tendency. This is why climate scientists have such a bad reputation. Filling in the blank where an unknown exist, with something that supports their position, is unscientific and far too common on the left. The right typically fares no better as they will tend to cite the left as having filled in the blank with something that supports the left's position, but will not admit that an unknown means things could go either way.

And the middle gets buried in the bickering between those two sides, as does rationality and well warranted skepticism.
Good to know Matteo V and prop_joe are the same person.

You are still attempting to debate scientific facts. And your level of analysis comes close to the intelligence of a Neanderthaler.

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby SimonP » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:48 pm

It's no coincidence that if you compare COVID-19 deaths / million with government dysfunctionality you get a pretty high correlation. Leaders who tried to "play it down" are those with the highest proportion of deaths. Those countries who followed scientific advice and locked down hard and early controlled the virus's transmission. Here in New Zealand, we eliminated community transmission and have only 5 deaths/million deaths versus the US 590 deaths/million. The downside is that we have had to close our borders to countries like the US for the foreseeable future.

It is also no coincidence that the two countries with the highest proportion and number of deaths are the same two who have openly vocal climate change denier presidents (Trump and Bolsanaro). This is because they think they know better than the experts and ignore their advice.
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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:50 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:01 pm
it is fear mongering and an outright lie, to attribute everything bad to AGW AND imply that it would not have happened if we cut CO2 emissions to zero.
Prior to the industrial revolution our CO2 emissions were far lower. Now they're much higher. CO2 emissions increase the capture of heat energy from the sun via the greenhouse effect.


What about that don't you understand?


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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby tegirinenashi » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:13 pm

SimonP wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:48 pm
It is also no coincidence that the two countries with the highest proportion and number of deaths are the same two who have openly vocal climate change denier presidents (Trump and Bolsanaro). This is because they think they know better than the experts and ignore their advice.
Your narrative easily falls apart. What about the COVID death champion -- Belgium (856/100000)?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
What about the socialist paradise -- Sweden -- where they also adopted yahoo approach to the problem and didn't close at all?

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Re: climate change / unpredictable weather/wind

Postby Havre » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:14 pm

SimonP wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:48 pm
It's no coincidence that if you compare COVID-19 deaths / million with government dysfunctionality you get a pretty high correlation. Leaders who tried to "play it down" are those with the highest proportion of deaths. Those countries who followed scientific advice and locked down hard and early controlled the virus's transmission. Here in New Zealand, we eliminated community transmission and have only 5 deaths/million deaths versus the US 590 deaths/million. The downside is that we have had to close our borders to countries like the US for the foreseeable future.

It is also no coincidence that the two countries with the highest proportion and number of deaths are the same two who have openly vocal climate change denier presidents (Trump and Bolsanaro). This is because they think they know better than the experts and ignore their advice.
I would like to see that backed up with evidence. Seems rather speculative to me. Especially considering there is no common way of even counting Covid-19 deaths.

Sweden and the US are not the same. Not to mention that the US is hardly "one thing" when it comes to Covid-19. I find it a bit funny (in a sad way) that Cuomo became some sort of hero for all the mistakes he made etc.


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