Slingshot WF1 + 76cm Infinity for Kite Foiling

[mcapuano]

Hi - I am trying to learn to kite foil using the WF-1. I've been using it behind the boat fine but it was pretty challenging for me when I tried kite foiling the last 2 sessions. Using the Infinity 76cm wing and the 48cm stabilizer (I also have an Infinity 84 which works great for wing foiling, use the 48 cm stabilizer). Behind the boat we are going about 10mph and I am fine.

One of the challenges to learning is there are no footstraps inserts in the WF1. I actually bought a NSI surface mount plate and a half hooker footstrap which worked really well and helped a lot for about 1 hour and then it pulled the surface material right off of the board . I can try and fix this of course.

Another challenge is pearling....just trying to ride the board NOT on the foil is challenging....it wants to nose dive in choppy water (SF Bay at Coyote Point). Do you think this is user error that will be corrected over time or is it just the wrong board?

Finally, if I start going with any speed the foil comes out of the water real quick and I have to really manage my speed by keeping the kite high but not too high and put a lot of front foot pressure to avoid breaching. Then balancing the kite to not go to slow or to fast is a bit tough. Of course I went out on this yesterday when the wind was blowing about 18 mph (perfect) and shortly thereafter it jumped to 25 mph which was pretty tough for me on my Naish 9m Boxer.

Anyway, I am wondering what your opinion is on using this set up to kite foil - 76cm Infinity + WF-1 + 71cm mast?

1) Should I be on a smaller front wing? Everything I read seems to have folks on <1200 cm^2

2) Should I get a kite specific board? For example how different is the rocker of the 4'6" Dwarfcraft...looks to be somewhat similar to the WF-1 when I see it online or does it have more scoop on the nose? What are other recommendations that are good for learning but that I will not outgrow in a month or two?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
  Mike

[atomic-chomik]

my recomendation for you is time on the water friend. Your setup is fine.

[juandesooka]

If you found it was working fine behind the boat, but having trouble kiting, that means your challenge is flying the kite. Controlling the power, not enough and you can't get on foil, too much and you over-foil and crash. When you are learning to kite foil, you generally want a fair bit of power, and that's why smaller wings are generally preferred. You can be ripping the kite around with big power surges and still not breach ... but that is a bit challenging with a medium size surf foil like the 76. Later on, as you gain efficiencies, you'll find with that wing you can be on a kite 2-4m less kite than others on the water, as it has so much lift.

Until then, if you can find an H2 wing or an NF2/H5, even just to borrow for a while, you will find it a lot easier until you get your feet under you. BUT, if not, your setup is perfectly good! You just need to concentrate on keeping your kite power more stable. And if the wind strength jumps like that, you may need to quickly re-rig smaller or go winging until it subsides.

Your board is fine...that's a good all rounder, if anything it is more forgiving than most kitefoil boards.

[bkkite]

How much do you weigh? My best guess is you need to shift your weight quite a bit more forward ( this is actually easier without straps )

I learned on a slingshot space skate 65 wing, 70cm mast, and a 5’2 Nobile split foil board while strapless. The Nobile has less volume that the WF-1, which might make water starts more challenging, but otherwise they are similar setups.

After riding a couple different fouls, my experience was that the space skate was a lot more stable and easy to use. A couple of my friends have told me that the infinity 76 is even more stable and really helpful when working on transitions, so I think you’re on a good setup.

Keep in mind, foiling is hard. I basically had to relearn water starts, it took a while. Once I was up, I had to relearn how to stand on the board to keep the foil down. After that I had to adjust my kite control quite a bit because foils don’t really have brakes, so it’s super easy to get overpowered fast. 18-25mph is a huge jump that would have led to out of control over powered riding for me.

Good luck

[gl]

I have kited on a similar setup. The only difference was I was on the wf2. I believe they're the same board. Mine's just covered with foam all over the top and sides. It worked just fine for me. The board does not have a lot of nose rocker so if you breach you're probably going to fall. I had no problem riding the board on the water. I am assuming you have the mast in the slot in the wing. I put the mast at the back of the mast track on the board. That should give you lots of room to weight the front of the board enough to keep the foil in the water. I have used those stick-on pads and never had them come off. I'm assuming you stuck them right to the fiberglass and not the foam. I use a single foot hook to help with water starting. I can do it without the foot hook it just makes it a lot easier. At 18 knots I would be using my 4-meter Firefly or my 4.5 wave. Both of those are foil kites. My guess is they would be equivalent to a 6 or 7 in an inflatable. There is no way I would be using a 9-meter kite in those winds on that foil wing. I'm not saying you can't do it ,I'm just saying it wouldn't be that much fun you have to be too careful. The infinity 76 is the foil I use most often and I really like it. So you should be good with your current setup you just need more practice and less kite power. I used the smaller stabilizer. I have the larger one but only use it with the 84 or 99. I'm wondering if that is part of the problem you're having with the extra lift.

[mcapuano]

All - thanks for the helpful feedback. Here are my takeaways (and a little more info)

1) My set up is fine which was my main question. Maybe I need a smaller stabilizer but probably not.
2) On the wing foil I have learned to ride in both directions but on the wakefoil/kitefoil WF1 board behind the boat I always rode regular so never got a feel for riding goofy on that board. How dumb can I be.
3) When I went out the wind was around 18 - 20 and at Coyote Point and going out = regular, so did pretty well right away with good wind speed and regular foot. Then got out to the channel where it is a bit windier and it also picked up to 25 all the way back to the beach. Now I have to head in goofy and I got really conservative with the kite and did not have enough control...either too high and sinking the board or as soon as I got going there was a lot of power and the foil came out and breached followed by nose dive and crash. I body dragged in a couple of times and then turned around to try regular again but did not do great going out regular once the wind picked up. I probably need to buy a 7m. I think if I can get lucky with a smooth windy day around 18mph with my 9m it will help. So yeah more time on the water in better conditions. I also hope I can get behind a boat again and practice goofy on the board.
4) I need to get more weight forward once I am up on foil but not before because the lack of rocker in this board makes it nose dive pretty quick in chop when not on foil.
5) I was wrong about the NSI surface mount. It did not pull up the board surface it just came unglued due to the lever pressure of the NSI Half Hooker foot strap. That is too bad because I cleaned the surface with alcohol, did some micro sanding, warmed it up with a hair dryer, applied it and warmed it a bit more with a hair dryer, let it sit overnight with weight on it, then let it sit for 2 more days. I will chat with NSI about their recommendation here. The half hooker foot strap helped me a lot with water starting but even NSI said their surface mounts are not really meant to be paired with a half foot strap. Any advice here appreciated.

Attached some pics of my set up to my original post and the ungluing issue..

Thanks again!

[bkkite]

I have kited on a similar setup. The only difference was I was on the wf2. I believe they're the same board. Mine's just covered with foam all over the top and sides. It worked just fine for me. The board does not have a lot of nose rocker so if you breach you're probably going to fall. I had no problem riding the board on the water. I am assuming you have the mast in the slot in the wing. I put the mast at the back of the mast track on the board. That should give you lots of room to weight the front of the board enough to keep the foil in the water. I have used those stick-on pads and never had them come off. I'm assuming you stuck them right to the fiberglass and not the foam. I use a single foot hook to help with water starting. I can do it without the foot hook it just makes it a lot easier. At 18 knots I would be using my 4-meter Firefly or my 4.5 wave. Both of those are foil kites. My guess is they would be equivalent to a 6 or 7 in an inflatable. There is no way I would be using a 9-meter kite in those winds on that foil wing. I'm not saying you can't do it ,I'm just saying it wouldn't be that much fun you have to be too careful. The infinity 76 is the foil I use most often and I really like it. So you should be good with your current setup you just need more practice and less kite power. I used the smaller stabilizer. I have the larger one but only use it with the 84 or 99. I'm wondering if that is part of the problem you're having with the extra lift.

Yeah, agreed, 9m sounds big for that wind range.

@gl have you ridden the Space Skate 65? Wondering how it compares to the 76 and whether its worth moving to the 76 at some point. Thanks!

[gl]

I have both the space skate and the infinity 76. I still ride both of them. If I could only have one I would stay with the infinity 76. It is a little bit faster. I find it starts a bit earlier, it's easier to pump. It is more stable. I find the space skate is much more turny. So I pick which one I use based on what I feel like doing. Having said that I probably use the infinity 76 4-5 times to every time I use the space skate Both are great just different.

[juandesooka]

FYI here's an H5/NF2 wing for $150:
http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-49112.html

Last year the big kite stores had blow out deals on slingshot's older wings (mac kite, real, green hat, etc). Buddy got an H2 and H4/Batwing for $99 each. So keep an eye, Black Friday is here soon.

I kited the H4 briefy, was quite fun, really turney. It wasn't very good for surf/sup foiling, but was fun under a kite. I would describe the H2 or 76 are more locked in and driving, versus loose.

[Mossy 757]

I'm learning to kitefoil and describing all of the normal things that frustrate beginners, will spending more money make me a better kiter?

Time on the water. Keep at it and you'll someday laugh at this thread.