Are you trying to go out in the very bottom of their low end? Maybe the wind is less on the water. What size lines you using? I'm using 20m so there is a little less drag from that. Are you inland or ocean, humid or dry air. Just trying to figure out what could be this issue.
12-20 mph on a foil is not the low end of a 9M. it's closer to the high end, at least near the 20 side. standard line length. ocean. humid. yesterday was flat seas, so i don't mind being a bit overpowered on a foil with that. but when we get waves, i want to be a bit underpowered while foiling. this is what worries me about the Reach. if these kites only behave well at their top end, it means foiling with waves with them won't be doable. the one time it back stalled yesterday was near shore and wind was funkiest...perhaps going offshore a bit. it came all the way down to the water, and wouldn't relaunch. so that tells me the wind was definitely funky there.
i'm not trying to disparage these kites; i want them to work for me. Yesterday the 9M was great for 99% of the time. maybe i just need to get more accustomed to them...which i think i am. I'm just surprised i'm having this issue with both my 7 and 9, while no one else is. i also fly Ozone Alphas in 12m and 16m, and have no issue back stalling with them.
my bar and lines are almost brand new, so the bar isn't a problem. i was out today again foiling, and it was in the 12-20 mph range. it was probably my best session so far on the 9M, and it only back stalled once. the odd part about these back stalls is that they're very difficult to recover from, i.e., once the kite starts drifting down to the water, even though i'm pulling/pumping like crazy on the front lines, it's tough to keep it out of the water. looping would be better, but i keep thinking it'll come back up...and then it's too late to loop. so i got to figure out how best to handle this aspect of the kite. when it's not back stalling, it really is a fun kite.
usually to recover from a backstall you should just let go of the bar to let the kite breath and it will climb back up at 12
Are you trying to go out in the very bottom of their low end? Maybe the wind is less on the water. What size lines you using? I'm using 20m so there is a little less drag from that. Are you inland or ocean, humid or dry air. Just trying to figure out what could be this issue.
12-20 mph on a foil is not the low end of a 9M. it's closer to the high end, at least near the 20 side. standard line length. ocean. humid. yesterday was flat seas, so i don't mind being a bit overpowered on a foil with that. but when we get waves, i want to be a bit underpowered while foiling. this is what worries me about the Reach. if these kites only behave well at their top end, it means foiling with waves with them won't be doable. the one time it back stalled yesterday was near shore and wind was funkiest...perhaps going offshore a bit. it came all the way down to the water, and wouldn't relaunch. so that tells me the wind was definitely funky there.
i'm not trying to disparage these kites; i want them to work for me. Yesterday the 9M was great for 99% of the time. maybe i just need to get more accustomed to them...which i think i am. I'm just surprised i'm having this issue with both my 7 and 9, while no one else is. i also fly Ozone Alphas in 12m and 16m, and have no issue back stalling with them.
If I can ask are you using a North bar? I'm asking as I find this kite extremely hard to make back stall. Especially for a 9m in 12-20. I'm not doubting you, I'm just wondering if your front lines are a bit long?
This video was from last week and features a lot of the Reach, we have a lot of very happy/satisfied customers riding the Reach (plus Carve/Orbit) here and genuinely have not seen or heard of this behaviour and I really hope you get to the bottom of what is causing it.
I'm a little bit lighter than you and I would say for me the low end of the 9m is about 13mph for our very humid winds. This is saying it is pretty stable and not dropping below that for to long. I'm riding a moses 633/438 in flat water. I would agree if your trying to ride waves then you would have a lot more of an issue with the kite back stalling. At the low end it very easy to run the drift of the kite. Maybe a strutless or foil kite might be better for you.
I got the Reach because I want to do everything with out having 3 quivers. It is a matter of trade offs in the end.
A couple of recent observations about this kite (flown the 9 and 12) from an intermediate freeride rider:
Pros:
- The kite flies very intuitively. Don't need to spend much focus or energy keeping track of it. It always is where I think it is (almost -- see below for timing jumps).
- I find it very easy to land airs with this kite. It dives very fast and predictively and just makes it really confidence inspiring on landings. Even when I feel a bit sketchy in the air, I can always stabilize things with a power stroke going into the landing and ride away.
- Looping the kite is very predictable (transitions and downwind -- I don't loop in the air). The loop power feels very even and I can predictably loop high or low without feeling any aggressive power "yanks"
- The kite drifts very well. Even when I slack the lines in waves or going downwind and it starts to backstall, it drops right into the powered window without a fuss. To address the previous commentary in this thread, while the kite can stall (all kites do) I actually find it very predictable to correct when it stalls.
Cons:
- I have been pumping the kite to the recommended pressure, which is less pressure than I would pump other kites to. With this lower pressure, I find the kite sometimes gets squirrely if it crashes (inversions, tumbles, etc...). It hasn't become an issue relaunching, but it seems like a higher probability of running into issues versus other kites I have used. Might try pumping it up a little higher to see if this is still an issue.
- The kite airs very well when the timing is right, but if timing is off I find it can have a tendency to overshoot the sweet spot a bit. I've had experiences where I screw up timing between board pop and hitting the sweet spot with the kite (ramping waves for example), and wind up crashing with the kite overshooting me and almost frontstalling. I'm still figuring the kite out, but it feels slightly less forgiving than I'm used to.
- The low end of the advertised wind ranges are not realistic for me (75-80 kgs). I find the 12 starts to work for me at roughly 13-15 kts and the 9 works at 20+ kts, which I find to be roughly consistent with most other 3-5 strut kites I have ridden.
A couple of recent observations about this kite (flown the 9 and 12) from an intermediate freeride rider:
Pros:
- The kite flies very intuitively. Don't need to spend much focus or energy keeping track of it. It always is where I think it is (almost -- see below for timing jumps).
- I find it very easy to land airs with this kite. It dives very fast and predictively and just makes it really confidence inspiring on landings. Even when I feel a bit sketchy in the air, I can always stabilize things with a power stroke going into the landing and ride away.
- Looping the kite is very predictable (transitions and downwind -- I don't loop in the air). The loop power feels very even and I can predictably loop high or low without feeling any aggressive power "yanks"
- The kite drifts very well. Even when I slack the lines in waves or going downwind and it starts to backstall, it drops right into the powered window without a fuss. To address the previous commentary in this thread, while the kite can stall (all kites do) I actually find it very predictable to correct when it stalls.
Cons:
- I have been pumping the kite to the recommended pressure, which is less pressure than I would pump other kites to. With this lower pressure, I find the kite sometimes gets squirrely if it crashes (inversions, tumbles, etc...). It hasn't become an issue relaunching, but it seems like a higher probability of running into issues versus other kites I have used. Might try pumping it up a little higher to see if this is still an issue.
- The kite airs very well when the timing is right, but if timing is off I find it can have a tendency to overshoot the sweet spot a bit. I've had experiences where I screw up timing between board pop and hitting the sweet spot with the kite (ramping waves for example), and wind up crashing with the kite overshooting me and almost frontstalling. I'm still figuring the kite out, but it feels slightly less forgiving than I'm used to.
- The low end of the advertised wind ranges are not realistic for me (75-80 kgs). I find the 12 starts to work for me at roughly 13-15 kts and the 9 works at 20+ kts, which I find to be roughly consistent with most other 3-5 strut kites I have ridden.
Just my $0.02.
Thanks for the review/feedback. On the reco'd pressure part I was just pondering writing a response on another thread about my limited confidence in the accuracy of pump gauges, anyway, I definitely go minimum +1 or 2 from the number printed on the leading edge. I can't say this makes the kite fly better. Try it and see what you think. I'm curious what kites you;ve moved from. The Reach is on the lower end of bar pressure which can take some getting used to. Thanks.
Short review on the 12m Reach with the foil in 8-11 knots.
The 12m is really stable in the light wind conditions with the foil. Drift is good. Turning into the kite with line slack is no problem. The 12m reacts really good when the lines don't have any tension. No backstalling. Very fun to ride in 8-11 knots on the foil.
Had some lightwind fun in the morning before the wind dropped under 10 knots with the TT. Did some nice unhooked stuff till the wind was around 10 knots.
When the wind was around 10 knots I have tried to bring the kite into frontstall when unhooking and pulling really hard fully depowered on the chicken loop with the kite at 12. No chance. That kite sits there like nothing. Awesome stuff. Stability is close to the Naish Boxer 2020, that I have in 10m in my quiver as well.
Luca - Mattaiken, thanks for your reviews, can I ask how is the depower? Linear with bar throw or nothing then a lot? Lots of depower on hand or not so much? Thanks
