High wind foiling

[jatem]

I never liked my uno 4m at all, it wasn't stiff enough despite over inflation, and was very unpredictable. I was glad to get rid of it.

The peak 3m is way better in strong wind. Handles gusts with aplomb, and doesn't surge with power when you don't need it. Takes some skill to fly, a couple of sessions to get used to, it's easy to oversheet and pivot turn (or undersheet and make it flap).

[junebug]

I ride a 5m until 18kn then switch to 3.5m (Boxer). We don’t get very strong winds where I live, and I haven’t found the top end of the 3.5m yet. It works to at least 21kn. I’ve been thinking about getting a 2.5m Uno, but I haven’t been blown off the water on my 3.5m yet. Plus, I like riding a twintip, for old times’ sake, over 20kn.

I like flying underpowered, especially in waves. My guess is that I’ll want to size down at about 22-23kn or so.

Flying small kites is so much fun. Being able to loop a kite with a flick of the wrist is a pretty amazing feeling.

[purdyd]

Yeah - but what is a "tiny kite" ... and what does it feel like to use it? Based on my experience, I would say that a 5m LEI starts to feel a bit big in around 18 knots. Doable for a few knots more, but not ideal for carving in swell/waves. What's the next step down? A 4m? A 3m? Those kites used to seem insanely small & twitchy for riding a SB tor TT, but riding a foil is a whole different ball of wax. How is a 3m Peak4 in 25 knots? I guess what I'm really thinking about right now is a kite to foil in around 18 - 24 knots. More than that & I would still stick with my SB.

Last year I picked up a 5m and this year a 4m and 3m.

I’d say 18 - 24 knots would be 3m for carving swell and waves. But there is a lot of space between 5 and 3 meter.

Duotone makes a 3.5m mono that slots in there.

I had the 3m out in less than 18 knots today and ended up swimming in. No margin when the wind dropped.

The 5m feels big now. The 3m is quick but you get used to it. 4m is a sweet size.

[Huib]

Love to go out with my BRM Cloud 2.2m on my Ketos 1200cm2 wing. It needs with my 87kg more then 28 knp.
The kite is incredible fast. But if the wind is getting very gusty I don't like it anymore.

[tomtom]

3m peak is for sure best strong wind foiling kite ATM. But we need even smaller kite for more than 25 knts.
BTW how much rig down to smaller front wing help to be more in control - what is your experience? Anyway - rig down wing wise have other detrimental consequences - you cannot pump anymore - and glide is usually worse. This all affect wave riding. I use pumping to reposition myself to another wave section in "kiteless" mode. I miss this even on relatively big wing like 633 /compared to even bigger pumpable wing/.

[Foil]

Compared the 4 mtr Uno and the 4 mtr Peak on the same day, my guess is 25-30 knots. The Uno was good, bit overpowered but still fun. The Peak wasn’t fun, flapping like a banshee. Yes, I should have been on smaller sizes but showed that the Peak needs to be used it’s wind range, otherwise it’s a brilliant kite.
Personally I dislike small 3 strut LEI’s, very on and off, I had the 5 mtr Reo and it was not great for foiling. I guess they are just shrunken larger sizes and don’t get the testing. The single or no strut tiny kites seem to work better in the higher winds, seem to be more forgiving in gusts.
I think you will be surprised how small you can go, a 5 mtr is a fairly large high wind hydrofoil kite, I now have 2 sizes under that and will be buying a third. I can use my 3.7 in 15 knots, but only just.

blimey the more I read about the super tiny kites some use then i feel like I must try one or two of them.
my maximum wind strength for fun is 30 knts (just! if the water is friendly)
my smallest kite is my 5mtr ultralight v1 hyperlink, super well behaved and smooth, but can lead to me being driven too fast going into a turn on fast waves, leading to hard fast wipeouts that really can hurt( dizzy head for a few seconds is not nice) even wearing a impact vest and head gear. my 7mtr v2 hyperlink is my most user friendly enjoyable kite, that loves to boost big and power delivery is hyper smooth, works well for me between 16knts and 24knts, it will go much lower but the jumping suffers, but anyone strapless would love it in anything over 12knts of clean wind on a big wing.
if i buy a smaller kite then it must boost well, mabe a small boxer will work well.but smaller than a 4mtr is maybe a bit too small for getting up.

[Peter_Frank]

3m peak is for sure best strong wind foiling kite ATM. But we need even smaller kite for more than 25 knts.
BTW how much rig down to smaller front wing help to be more in control - what is your experience? Anyway - rig down wing wise have other detrimental consequences - you cannot pump anymore - and glide is usually worse. This all affect wave riding. I use pumping to reposition myself to another wave section in "kiteless" mode. I miss this even on relatively big wing like 633 /compared to even bigger pumpable wing/.

True, from 25 knots a 3 m2 is too big for the average weights...

Going down in wing size does not help, you go faster thus even more power, and in waves you get too much speed if too fast a wing, so not good either.

Glide will be better though, as smaller wings are usually not as much smaller in span, thus glide is even better than with the big "fat" wings.
Pumping is worse yes.

I dont have this problem with the small kites for foiling though, as we can always find an okay or an awesome wave spot for waveboards with sideshore wind, when 24 to 28 knots (5-6 m2 LEI) no matter which wind direction.

Peter

[purdyd]

3m peak is for sure best strong wind foiling kite ATM. But we need even smaller kite for more than 25 knts.
BTW how much rig down to smaller front wing help to be more in control - what is your experience? Anyway - rig down wing wise have other detrimental consequences - you cannot pump anymore - and glide is usually worse. This all affect wave riding. I use pumping to reposition myself to another wave section in "kiteless" mode. I miss this even on relatively big wing like 633 /compared to even bigger pumpable wing/.

True, from 25 knots a 3 m2 is too big for the average weights...

Going down in wing size does not help, you go faster thus even more power, and in waves you get too much speed if too fast a wing, so not good either.

Glide will be better though, as smaller wings are usually not as much smaller in span, thus glide is even better than with the big "fat" wings.
Pumping is worse yes.

I dont have this problem with the small kites for foiling though, as we can always find an okay or an awesome wave spot for waveboards with sideshore wind, when 24 to 28 knots (5-6 m2 LEI) no matter which wind direction.

Peter

I think that is an over generalization of wings as there are plenty of big thin high aspect wings these days.

I’ll change from an Armstrong hs1050 to a cf800 when it gets bumpy and that does increase my high end. The hs1050 has noticeably more glide even though it has more area.

I have cloud ix x24 and x22 wings and they are identical in design and the smaller wing has more top end.

[grigorib]

200+ lbs I need a 4m from 25 knots or so.

[Flyboy]

The progression for me, & I suspect a lot of other people: you start with the idea to foil in light winds - say 10 - 15 knots, when It's not possible or not interesting to kite with a SB or TT. As you get more competent you start nudging the wind range higher to 15 - 20. You discover that riding swells on a foil is very fun ... & the great thing is you can carve down wind on the swells & then ride back upwind in one tack & do it all again.

My local wave conditions are entirely wind-driven. Waves start to get rideable at around 20 knots, but don't get really interesting until 25 knots. I'm looking to try foiling in those 20 - 25 knot conditions. I don't really expect to foil in anything above that because that would be great SB territory.

5m LEI is too much for me on a foil in 20 - 25. Never used anything smaller than a 5m on a SB, because wind over 35 knots is generally so unstable riding with a smaller kite would usually just be too on/off to be enjoyable. However, I'm guessing that 20 - 25 knots with a 3.5 on a foil would be fine as you're just using the kite to add a bit of speed to the foil when you need it.