Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Here you can exchange your experience and datas about your home build boards
User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 115kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Transitioned from Kiting to Wingsurfing late 2019. Building my own foils from my CAD designs and 3D prints, CNC machine.
Brand Affiliation: Designer of hydrofoils and many other things.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby fluidity » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:30 am

Wbrussow wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:45 am
This is such an interesting thread for me, considering I am new to foiling and come from an aerospace background.I was wondering if your design tool can be used for tailless wings, and reflexed airfoils, and no/little sweep. It would be awesome to not have to build a fuselage or rear wing. And I am hoping that during pumping at low speed, not having a rear wing on a long moment arm will result in less drag during the wild AoA oscilations.
I'm so new to wingfoiling I'm not stable up yet( had to build myself a bigger wing) but I used a 12mm diameter pultruded rod from front fuselage to the stabiliser. I was working on my theory that energy spent to displace the stabiliser position is wasted but energy spent to bend the rod is recovered. I won't really know until I learn to pump the foil or lend it to someone more experienced. Of course it's also much cheaper. I only CNCed the front fuselage section.

A tail-less wing can have a high chord to still have a level of pitching stability...

PrfctChaos
Frequent Poster
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:16 am
Local Beach: Perth
Style: Wave
Gear: Peak4's, Chrono V3, Skimboards, foils
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby PrfctChaos » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:15 am

Wbrussow wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:45 am
This is such an interesting thread for me, considering I am new to foiling and come from an aerospace background.I was wondering if your design tool can be used for tailless wings, and reflexed airfoils, and no/little sweep. It would be awesome to not have to build a fuselage or rear wing. And I am hoping that during pumping at low speed, not having a rear wing on a long moment arm will result in less drag during the wild AoA oscilations.
Hi, yes some wings with reflex are included in the optimisation program. However, for optimisation I am mostly concerned with lift, drag and AOA so that is the only data I handle and save. Optimising for minimum drag over a certain operating envelope.

However, for a monofoil you might care more about your pitching moment and other parameters for stability and accept less than ideal drag. I remember one guy on the Monofoil thread made 2 identical wings one with reflex and one without, I think he preffered the one with reflex for monofoiling, but I can't remember it that clearly. For playing around theoretically, you can always download Xfoil and it will analyse any profile you ask it to analyse and show all the data, but this is not something I am planning to include for optimisation purposes. Happy to run optimisation calcs for a traditional front wing for you and then you can plug it into Xfoil and play with it, add reflex etc...

I rode monofoil for a few months to make my mind up about it, but I am now quite happy with small fast stabs being proffered in my case. I think a lot of work will be needed to make a well balanced monofoil, the problem is not that it is difficult to ride (one gets used to it), the irritating thing for me was the amount of weight shift needed when changing riding speed. Had to keep on moving my feet backward when going faster and forwards when going slower. A well balanced stab does this work by creating a countermoment to try and cancel out the rotating moment that drag is trying to cause as speed increases. So I'm quite happy with a small and fast stab, tuned to give very similar balance across the speed range of the wing. And stabs actually lift when at low speeds (higher angle of attack) so their area is helping to add to the lift of the front wing at low speeds. It is a common misconception that all stabs always push down, but that is not the case, it pushes up at low speeds and transitions to pushing down as speeds increase.

Another thing is pumping needs you to put in a lot of effort and a more stable platform does help. I don't think it will be a easy task to learn to vigorously push with the legs while still maintaining good balance on a monofoil, but nothing is impossible. I would suggest learning on a setup know to pump well and then experiment from there. As mentioned, learning to dock start is not easy, one needs all the help one can get.

salvatoreone
Rare Poster
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:40 pm
Local Beach: Sandgate QLD
Gear: twintip/hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby salvatoreone » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:39 am

PrfctChaos wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:28 am
salvatoreone wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:11 pm
If it was only $50 I would be all in, but I don't have any pump to actually make the vacuum so unless there is some workaround I'll need to stick to handcrafting...
Hand layup should be fine. But would be easier to get 200 g.m^2 fibreglass to conform than carbon fibre. For Fibreglass I would probably go for 8 or so layers of 200 g/m^2 S-glass. And yes it might be best to do a handlayup wing first before adding complexity of vacuum bagging. I'm just a big fan of the consistent good results vacuum bagging gives.

Plenty of vacuum options around:
- Bag - Since you are in QLD, Aus, can pick one of these jumbo clothes vacuum bags at Bunnings for $7.40. It's reusable and I use it for boards as well.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/flexi-stora ... g_p4470473
- Vacuum pump: Plenty of options
Starting with a pump from a old fridge found on the verge
Check gumtree for secondhands, theres on in Perth for $50
Can use a cheap handpump
$120 brand new on the ebay
3CFM 1/3 HP Refrigerant Vacuum Pump Refrigeration 85 L/min R410A R32 VAC PUMP https://ebay.us/HVegd7
- Release film and tissue paper. Trojan fibreglass in NSW has good pricing or local fibreglass shop etc.

Happy building. Would be good to see a dedicated build thread for your wing. Cheers
Hi All! So after a good month of designing and making I've finished the wing yesterday and had a chance to test it today and it came out beautiful!

I was a complete rookie when it comes to fibreglass (I had never done it before this project) so I messed up few things on the way but overall it ended up really nice! I printed it out in 6 pieces and glued together - there was a first fail which I noticed much later in the project. One piece wasn't straight and the whole wing is slightly uneven (one tip is lower than the other). It's made only of epoxy+fibreglass, 4 layers on top, 5 layers on the bottom and one reinforcement in the middle section. Making a fuselage interface was quite tricky and it took me few tries to get it right but it came out absolutely perfectly tight, holds very firm. I only use one bolt to hold the wing which is also a mast bolt. Not ideal but Slingshot fuselage doesn't have any other holes that suit my design and I didn't want to drill a new one. All in all, I'm super happy with how it came out!

I've been only foiling for three months so take it with a grain of salt but in my opinion, the foil feels real good in the water, takes off almost immediately and what I liked about it, in particular, was that the front leg pressure didn't need to be a lot even with higher speeds when the wind was picking up. The front leg pressure felt like it's almost constant all the time. It also stays upwind like mad. Unfortunately I've never tried any other wings so I have no reference but it was meant to be a lightwind wing and it does the job so I'm happy! ;)

Anyway, below some pictures for your entertainment... I'm happy to take some questions. And many thanks to PrfctChaos for all the help with this project!

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

PrfctChaos
Frequent Poster
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:16 am
Local Beach: Perth
Style: Wave
Gear: Peak4's, Chrono V3, Skimboards, foils
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby PrfctChaos » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:06 pm

salvatoreone wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:39 am
PrfctChaos wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:28 am
salvatoreone wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:11 pm
If it was only $50 I would be all in, but I don't have any pump to actually make the vacuum so unless there is some workaround I'll need to stick to handcrafting...
Hand layup should be fine. But would be easier to get 200 g.m^2 fibreglass to conform than carbon fibre. For Fibreglass I would probably go for 8 or so layers of 200 g/m^2 S-glass. And yes it might be best to do a handlayup wing first before adding complexity of vacuum bagging. I'm just a big fan of the consistent good results vacuum bagging gives.

Plenty of vacuum options around:
- Bag - Since you are in QLD, Aus, can pick one of these jumbo clothes vacuum bags at Bunnings for $7.40. It's reusable and I use it for boards as well.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/flexi-stora ... g_p4470473
- Vacuum pump: Plenty of options
Starting with a pump from a old fridge found on the verge
Check gumtree for secondhands, theres on in Perth for $50
Can use a cheap handpump
$120 brand new on the ebay
3CFM 1/3 HP Refrigerant Vacuum Pump Refrigeration 85 L/min R410A R32 VAC PUMP https://ebay.us/HVegd7
- Release film and tissue paper. Trojan fibreglass in NSW has good pricing or local fibreglass shop etc.

Happy building. Would be good to see a dedicated build thread for your wing. Cheers
Hi All! So after a good month of designing and making I've finished the wing yesterday and had a chance to test it today and it came out beautiful!

I was a complete rookie when it comes to fibreglass (I had never done it before this project) so I messed up few things on the way but overall it ended up really nice! I printed it out in 6 pieces and glued together - there was a first fail which I noticed much later in the project. One piece wasn't straight and the whole wing is slightly uneven (one tip is lower than the other). It's made only of epoxy+fibreglass, 4 layers on top, 5 layers on the bottom and one reinforcement in the middle section. Making a fuselage interface was quite tricky and it took me few tries to get it right but it came out absolutely perfectly tight, holds very firm. I only use one bolt to hold the wing which is also a mast bolt. Not ideal but Slingshot fuselage doesn't have any other holes that suit my design and I didn't want to drill a new one. All in all, I'm super happy with how it came out!

I've been only foiling for three months so take it with a grain of salt but in my opinion, the foil feels real good in the water, takes off almost immediately and what I liked about it, in particular, was that the front leg pressure didn't need to be a lot even with higher speeds when the wind was picking up. The front leg pressure felt like it's almost constant all the time. It also stays upwind like mad. Unfortunately I've never tried any other wings so I have no reference but it was meant to be a lightwind wing and it does the job so I'm happy! ;)

Anyway, below some pictures for your entertainment... I'm happy to take some questions. And many thanks to PrfctChaos for all the help with this project!

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
That looks insanely good!! Surface looks as smooth as can be, very well done. Way to put pressure on any other first time fibreglassers, LOL.

salvatoreone
Rare Poster
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:40 pm
Local Beach: Sandgate QLD
Gear: twintip/hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby salvatoreone » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:23 pm

I admit I have taken your words "smoothness is everything" very seriously :lol:

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2822
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby downunder » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:10 pm

Great build, congrats.

Reminds of many great projects by board builders 10 years ago.

Whats the wing weight and layers?

Thx
Last edited by downunder on Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

norcom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:51 pm
Style: waves
Gear: Too much to list these days. Currently mostly a v3 Cabo's and Spleene Zone fan
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby norcom » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:16 pm

salvatoreone wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:39 am
Hi All! So after a good month of designing and making I've finished the wing yesterday and had a chance to test it today and it came out beautiful!

I was a complete rookie when it comes to fibreglass (I had never done it before this project) so I messed up few things on the way but overall it ended up really nice! I printed it out in 6 pieces and glued together - there was a first fail which I noticed much later in the project. One piece wasn't straight and the whole wing is slightly uneven (one tip is lower than the other). It's made only of epoxy+fibreglass, 4 layers on top, 5 layers on the bottom and one reinforcement in the middle section. Making a fuselage interface was quite tricky and it took me few tries to get it right but it came out absolutely perfectly tight, holds very firm. I only use one bolt to hold the wing which is also a mast bolt. Not ideal but Slingshot fuselage doesn't have any other holes that suit my design and I didn't want to drill a new one. All in all, I'm super happy with how it came out!

I've been only foiling for three months so take it with a grain of salt but in my opinion, the foil feels real good in the water, takes off almost immediately and what I liked about it, in particular, was that the front leg pressure didn't need to be a lot even with higher speeds when the wind was picking up. The front leg pressure felt like it's almost constant all the time. It also stays upwind like mad. Unfortunately I've never tried any other wings so I have no reference but it was meant to be a lightwind wing and it does the job so I'm happy! ;)

Anyway, below some pictures for your entertainment... I'm happy to take some questions. And many thanks to PrfctChaos for all the help with this project!

That is pretty sweet! Looks excellent! Any chance of sharing the STL files? Not that I'd ever get around to making one but would be neat to dream about getting started on a wing project. :lol:

salvatoreone
Rare Poster
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:40 pm
Local Beach: Sandgate QLD
Gear: twintip/hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby salvatoreone » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:21 am

downunder wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:10 pm
Great build, congrats.

Reminds of many great projects by board builders 10 years ago.

Whats the wing weight and layers?

Thx
Cheers! That's a very good question, I just weighed it and it's 1090 grams finished, it was around 600g when I printed it so almost half of the weight is fibreglass.
norcom wrote: That is pretty sweet! Looks excellent! Any chance of sharing the STL files? Not that I'd ever get around to making one but would be neat to dream about getting started on a wing project. :lol:
Hah, no problem mate, if you promise you'll make it I can share it in DM :D

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 115kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Transitioned from Kiting to Wingsurfing late 2019. Building my own foils from my CAD designs and 3D prints, CNC machine.
Brand Affiliation: Designer of hydrofoils and many other things.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby fluidity » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:33 am

Great job salvatoreone!
What's the difference in angles between front and rear wings?
These users thanked the author fluidity for the post:
salvatoreone (Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 am)
Rating: 3.03%

salvatoreone
Rare Poster
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:40 pm
Local Beach: Sandgate QLD
Gear: twintip/hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Wing profile info for backyard hydrofoil builders

Postby salvatoreone » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 am

Thanks! I only made the front wing and the back stab is stock slingshot so I have no idea what's the angle on the back, but the front is neutral angle.

I just had second session with the wing and it was a dream! Really easy to ride but definitely on a slower side ;)


Return to “Gear Builders”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 172 guests