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Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

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Havre
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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby Havre » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:31 pm

How can you evaluate who is good at designing kites? How can I know which kites are designed by some "cheap ass fresh design grad"?

Not sure how one can collect good data here? How many more kiters do we now have? How many are now sharing information more freely than in 2006?

I've only kited for 5+ years, but I have spent a lot of time in very busy spots like Boracay, Cabarete, Cumbuco, SA, Tarifa etc. - and I don't believe I have ever seen a death loop live. Anecdotally of course.

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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby papasmerf » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:49 pm

Here's how I do it, and you can do what you want. 1) Death loop. 2) use the QR in 1 second. Maybe 2 seconds. 3) if the kite flags you are good. 4) if the kite continues to loop full release. The reason for the simple plan is that when the shit goes down you can't see shit, you are hurtling through the air, maybe you have a hard impact, waves are crashing around you, all the complicated plans go to shit.


Again I got to say great video. It really captures the feeling well.
[/quote]

What if the end of bar is in hook? Then your QR won’t work. I just think that should be in your flow chart.

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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby edt » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:56 pm

Then I release my harness. But no it's not in the flow chart because I try to keep it simple as possible. Also not in the flow chart when to use a knife or my hydrofoil tangled in my lines or what if you tangle with another kite or any of a hundred other situations. Most kiters don't understand just how long it takes them to QR when the shit hits the fan. I have seen plenty of accidents. People get looped thrown to the ground slammed into posts, their kite death loops on the water and everyone is screaming "Throw the QR" but they hang on to their control bar with a death grip. Right now you are nice and cozy typing away on the internet but when the water is white with foam and you are upside and backwards being thrown around like a rag doll you hit the water, see stars, not sure if you are going to lose consciousness, that's when you need a simple plan of action. All the complicated plans go out the window when the shit hits the fan. 1) shit hits the fan 2) hit the QR 3) if that doesn't work full release. That's it. Your control bar doesn't get wedged inside your spreader by itself, it gets there because you are getting death looped and didn't throw your QR right away because you were busy pulling lines and trying to backstall the kite and bang on one of the loops the control bar gets wedged in there.

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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby downunder » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:19 pm

^
No.

It get wedged when crashed most of times. It happens and is out of hands.

But really, I want my kite to loop. And if that means death loop, so be it. Everyone can initiate a death loop, it is not that hard.

Or, ride foil kites and forget about death loops.

It is a choice.

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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby papasmerf » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:02 pm

downunder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:19 pm
^
No.

It get wedged when crashed most of times. It happens and is out of hands.

But really, I want my kite to loop. And if that means death loop, so be it. Everyone can initiate a death loop, it is not that hard.

Or, ride foil kites and forget about death loops.

It is a choice.
Or using a rope slider should help also with a lei,,I mean without a hook, nothing to catch it seems

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edt
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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby edt » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:05 pm

Ok you must have had it wedged in there more than me. Thanks for the correction. I've had plenty of death loops but don't remember a single wedged control bar yet. Done the full release but never the harness release.

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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby Matteo V » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:11 pm

downunder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:19 pm
^
No.

It get wedged when crashed most of times. It happens and is out of hands.

But really, I want my kite to loop. And if that means death loop, so be it. Everyone can initiate a death loop, it is not that hard.

Or, ride foil kites and forget about death loops.

It is a choice.
Hesus! WELL I guess I can get into that bottle as deep as you, which is deeper than I thought iriemon could.

But, i keep thinkin death loop is a kite down on the outside hopin for a ride to the inside with double overhead waves while I try to ride it in in light wind, ( to where no one saw me f--k up, though all those a holes saw it and were asking me about it later.....guess I make friends out of the rescue capable kiters on the beach, just like I do here).

Yeah I have had real wind death loop before, but not as extreme as I have seen it on YouTube. So take my advice with a grain of salt. SWIM THE F--K IN! your kites are not worth an emergency room visit ($1000), or a funeral ($25000). Though you should also acknowledge that if your body gets really chomped by a white shark (insert any hungry shark species here), a closed casket is cheaper than an open one.








And i think I have come up with the most bravery inspiring saying in human history. "A closed casket funeral is cheaper than an open one". Pretty simple when you are dealing with low t at your age and trying to get a clear view to punch an attacking white shark In the nose under water.

Personally. I carry a pic of downsey to put on the face of that white shark while I'm punching at him...........not saying I will be successful, just that downsey is there with me.........
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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby Soleas » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:01 pm

Pulling on the opposite rear line described in that video is one way to do it. It works but after having many deathloops in my kiting career I have discovered another way which deserves to be mentioned. I never had to pull my release, not even once. I used to pull the opposite line as well but the kite falls downwind in the middle of the powerzone. It's ok when you are freestyling and jumping around and stuff but not convenient when wave riding as the kite tends to fall in the middle of the powerzone exposed to the wave. I tested different ways on the beach and I found a way that helped me ride it off like nothing happened many times without any panic. I prefer to ride away and continue my session than destroying my kite in the wave.

Instead of pulling the opposite backline I grab the depower cleat (or depower straps) and pull it close to my body as quick as possible, immediately after the first deathloop. The cleat (or straps) is thick and easy to grab and by pulling the whole thing means pulling the front lines and depowering the kite. The kite depowers almost full, flies to the edge of the window and drops in the water on its side same as if there are no tangles and you just let go of the bar. Then by holding the depower cleat close to me I check to see what is tangled, fix it quickly and relaunch the kite. I had situations where one end of my bar went in between the double center line while jibing hard on a wave. falling into my lines after kiteloops, crashing and deathlooping right next to the beach in 35kn on my 9m Screamer ( you dont want to go in a deathloop with this kite trust me). It always worked fast and safe. As soon as I pull the cleat everything stops.

Ofcourse I always have the 'release everything' at the back of my head if anything goes really wrong but I never had to do it in 20 years of kiting. This technique works really well and safe but please note that my kites are always trimmed efficiently and never oversheet when I pull my bar all the way in while having the cleat at full power. I also recommend to try this on the beach first with a small kite in light winds to get familiar with how the kite behaves after pulling the depower mechanism.
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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:18 am

Havre wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:31 pm
How can you evaluate who is good at designing kites? How can I know which kites are designed by some "cheap ass fresh design grad"?

Not sure how one can collect good data here? How many more kiters do we now have? How many are now sharing information more freely than in 2006?

I've only kited for 5+ years, but I have spent a lot of time in very busy spots like Boracay, Cabarete, Cumbuco, SA, Tarifa etc. - and I don't believe I have ever seen a death loop live. Anecdotally of course.
Kites with bridles that cannot wrap, even if the kite isnt rock solid.

Kites designed with nothing to catch on lines. eg eg Duotones dumb ass valve one the end of the leading edge that can get the bridle caught on it when launching wtf?!

Designers that do not consider real world kiting experience because they have little or none.

Not using adequate leader lines and floats to reduce risk of bar half hitch death loops. I called a brand out on this - they thanked me as if they didnt even know about this issue.

Designers still not warning people on a harnesses that attaching the leash to the back of your harness and the associated risk.

I would be looking also at the designers real world kiting experience in a great variety of conditions.

Their education.

The data is better than ever, getting better. Industry has no real incentive to dig deep, they generally dont like the subject. The actual riders must control it - they are about to more than ever. We need to look after ourselves.
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edt
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Re: Dealing with a real world death loop in 30 knot conditions

Postby edt » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:01 am

Pulling the trim line I'm sure works perfectly for you but I would be reluctant suggest it for a beginner. I don't mind using the qr that's what it's for and it works great. Nobody wants to throw their qr for some reason. I'll throw it just to land my kite I don't care if anyone sees me. I'm not embarrassed to throw the qr.


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