Please note when you intend a comment to be sarcastic. This is an international forum with many users using English as a second language. Sarcasm doesn't translate well.
Please note when you intend a comment to be sarcastic. This is an international forum with many users using English as a second language. Sarcasm doesn't translate well.
What you first state is that we know for sure that a certain percentage of warming is proven to be the result of man's activities.
Those seem to be the two sides as definded by those buying into the global warming narrative. But that explanation is very much wrong.Pemba wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:40 pmAlmost 200 pages now.. This topic can be summarized by one side saying "people are causing climate change" and the other side saying "there is no proof of that". Repeat, repeat. Question would be are the indications strong enough for us to "do something" or not.
Here is the way it works:Havre wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:08 pmI find it interesting how seemingly the "science" differs with actual behaviour. We have our "priests" on here as we find them elsewhere as well, but how many are actually willing to sacrifice material goods for that belief? Some clearly do, but I would argue the "masses" are only doing so very superficially.
There is a huge body of scientific literature. Google Scholar claims 144,000 papers on AGW attribution which I encourage you to read sometime rather than floundering in some self-referential internet bubble.Matteo V wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:04 pmWhat you first state is that we know for sure that a certain percentage of warming is proven to be the result of man's activities.
This is NOT something we are certain of. Our understanding of the entire system is still in its infancy.
But you also give away your dedication to the AGW narrative by stating on which side you express your unfounded belief to be in err on.
Havre wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:08 pmTongue-in-cheek I guess. Slightly humorous.
I find it interesting how seemingly the "science" differs with actual behaviour. We have our "priests" on here as we find them elsewhere as well, but how many are actually willing to sacrifice material goods for that belief? Some clearly do, but I would argue the "masses" are only doing so very superficially.
In Norway almost all of our electricity is hydropower. So I guess after we have ruined our rivers etc. they are "renewable". So unlike if you are buying an electric car in Poland you are actually running on somewhat clean energy here (if you are not assuming we could sell that energy abroad if we didn't use electric cars). On top of that Norway is one of the richest countries in the world (ironically mainly due to oil and gas). Meaning most Norwegians could easily "sacrifice" some material goods and still be far better off than most people on this planet. So are we? Electric cars are heavily subsidized and whenever some benefit is taken away there is an outcry among our local "priests" fearing that people will then stop buying them. Why? Do we not believe in "science"?
Why so condescending/patronizing all the time Matteo ?Matteo V wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:43 pmThose seem to be the two sides as definded by those buying into the global warming narrative. But that explanation is very much wrong.Pemba wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:40 pmAlmost 200 pages now.. This topic can be summarized by one side saying "people are causing climate change" and the other side saying "there is no proof of that". Repeat, repeat. Question would be are the indications strong enough for us to "do something" or not.
The reality is that most of the skeptics out there see the real issues as being deeper than that such as:
1. Legislation/mandates in the west creating huge profits for corporations via subsidies being sold as a way to create jobs and continue the "growth". All the while "growth" is the problem we should be fixing.
2. International agreements that specifically weaken the west, and strengthen the 2nd and 3rd world. This eventually leads to point where there is 100% surety that the west will no longer have any say in enviormental (or human rights) policy globally in the future. And it is also clear that the 2nd and 3rd world will not think or act as kindly to the earth with respect to the global enviorment as the west has.
3. The enviormental destruction caused by the supposed solution (wind, solar, biomass) to the supposed fossil fuel problem - having the potential to be more of an environmental disaster than what it is there to fix.
So no, it is not that as simple as the AGW narrative you have bought into. I would suggest you watch "Planet Of The Humans".
Very good film, but the real eye opener is the attacks the creators have suffered by those who have seen it as an attack on thier sacred enviormental narrative of AGW. Even more interesting is how the large corporations, whose profit and growth stems from the subsidies which the AGW narrative supports, are actually "in bed with" nearly all leaders of the enviormental movement for the purpose of profit.
That would be a scientific debate and I'm really not qualified or probably able to quantify what the likelihood of AGW is. I believe it because the majority of scientists appear to think it is so. And as you say, the cost of doing nothing seems to be so high that even a likelihood of 50% or even less makes it worth "acting". But that doesn't invalidate some of Matteo's, Havre's and other comments.SimonP wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:35 pmExcept its not actually a question anymore. It is almost certain that 50% of the observed warming is anthropogenic in cause. It is highly likely that more than 100% of the observed warming is anthropogenic. Temperatures will rise 1 - 3°C by the end of the century depending upon future greenhouse gas emissions. The cost of doing nothing has been shown in numerous studies to exceed the cost/opportunity of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. That is why every country in the world signed the Paris Agreement, which requires every country to meet individual target goals.
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