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Used Moses masts

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Cefirmeza
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Used Moses masts

Postby Cefirmeza » Sun May 02, 2021 7:40 pm

I came across a good deal on a Moses foil with 637/420 and I am concerned with the 111 mast.

Does the carbon mast get any flexy over time?

I never used this kit but testing on lightwind I didnt feel too stiff as I think it should be.

Is there any way to check or measure if the mast is in good shape?

I am concerned because the 637 is a fast wing and it’s not worth buying if the mast is compromised.

dave1986
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby dave1986 » Sun May 02, 2021 8:41 pm

Carbon fibre isn't susceptible to fatigue cracks like other materials such as aluminium. Therefore in theory carbon fibre can take almost an infinite number of load cycles if cared for properly without gettint weaker or more flexible.

The surface condition looks good with any repairs or damage then it will be fine. Take a closer look at the tip of the mast where it joins to the fuselage as this area takes some of the highest forces... If it all looks fine then I wouldn't have any concerns.
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Cefirmeza (Sun May 02, 2021 9:17 pm)
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Jyoder
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby Jyoder » Mon May 03, 2021 1:05 am

I bought a well used but well cared for Moses Comet 637/420 and 111cm mast and I love it. Still going strong! I ride it strapless, however, and don’t jump. I think I remember hearing the mast may crack with a lot of jumping.

I think that kind of foil is currently undervalued on the used market as the demand is low with people either going to surf foils or racers getting the modern race foils, but for budget speed it’s great!
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Cefirmeza (Mon May 03, 2021 1:17 am)
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Foil
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby Foil » Tue May 04, 2021 8:22 am

the only worries I would have about boosting high and landing hard on big surface area wings when using the moses carbon mast is certainly not a worry for me if using the more recent Moses carbon masts, as they are bomb proof and proved so over the last years, but the older moses masts from 2016 or around that time, the masts were sort of banana shaped, not straight, canted back a touch yes but the earlier masts of the obvious bent banana shape had a few failures when boosting, not many, but big wings had not arrived when some did fail, but Moses being Moses they sorted out the problem and even looked after the owners of the faulty masts.
Don't worry about the strength near the fuse connection as there is a big alloy fabrication hidden inside the carbon mast around that mast area to cope with the stress loading from big boosting on big wings and just pushing hard and deep against big wings in the waves, I have seen one mast with the carbon damaged at the connection point, but a one off and a very old abused mast.
just one point though I believe the latest Havoc race mast comes with a warning not to use it for boosting, that needs confirming, and that would worry me if true, as I was thinking of buying one as its so much stiffer and at 106cm long would be ideal for me.
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Cefirmeza (Tue May 04, 2021 12:07 pm)
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Cefirmeza
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Style: Freeride foil
Gear: Slingshot sst 4m, Airush Ultra II 5m, Flysurfer Soul 6m
Slingshot Dwarfcraft 4´3 / Pocket surf 100cm board
Moses 91cm W633/679 - S483
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby Cefirmeza » Tue May 04, 2021 12:29 pm

Thanks to all detailed replies. I am definitely more relieved now but still worried about the mast not flies as a now one.

What about that logo plastic paint coming off with scrapes along the mast? Can it cause any sort of turbulence or instability?

In such case what is the best treatment to recover its smoothness at speed? Sand it all out and apply some sort of coating?

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downunder
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby downunder » Tue May 04, 2021 1:23 pm

Get it if good price.

Do not overthink. I got 590/330, 92cm for AU1500 and love it. Fantastic gear compared to some other.

U will not notice anything when riding.
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Cefirmeza (Tue May 04, 2021 3:14 pm)
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Foil
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby Foil » Wed May 05, 2021 11:33 am

tiny scratches can be removed by either a palm rotary buffer pad, wool type,with resin car polish applied,or try 600 grade wet/dry paper, use wet, and keep the motion forward and back from front to back sort of motion, keep dipping the paper in water, then after the minor scratches are going all the same way and the surface finish has gone to a matt finish then keep going but change to 800 grade paper then 1200, then to 1500, and then 2000, if there are any pin holes or other tiny scratches then glass finishing compound is great at hiding them but it will leave a tiny red line where the scratch was or red dot where the pin hole was, this reduces as you wet it down with fine paper, for total peace of mind and long term ownership then a thin brushing with a sponge brush with west systems epoxy, if you are happy going this far then you will maybe quite handy with things like car body repairs so will hopefully have the skills confidence and many of the tools and products needed or know where to get them,
to get a great durable end look to the carbon surface then black acrylic spray paint is superb, matt is great,so easy to use as well.
Car body repair shops, or rather the small suppliers they go to which are in most towns that the trade use have all these bits mentioned above, all are open to the public as well, cheap places to get the gear from that's for sure, after a spraying of the black acrylic matt paint then a 1200 grit wet paper rub down is required, gentle strokes will leave a nice matt sheen, or whant to buff it up to a soft sheen? then revert back to using the palm buffer and resin polish to get a more professional finish, keep going and it will end up as a gloss finish, but that's a personal choice some like, others like the racing matt finish.
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Cefirmeza (Wed May 05, 2021 8:33 pm)
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Cefirmeza
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Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:30 pm
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Weight: 65kg
Local Beach: Ceará - Brazil
Favorite Beaches: Ceará, Brazil
Style: Freeride foil
Gear: Slingshot sst 4m, Airush Ultra II 5m, Flysurfer Soul 6m
Slingshot Dwarfcraft 4´3 / Pocket surf 100cm board
Moses 91cm W633/679 - S483
2015 Lift Classic 100 Osprey
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby Cefirmeza » Fri May 07, 2021 4:09 pm

After the suggestions on this post I decided to go for it but got some frustration after testing the foil and feel some instability at 30ish kph specially while riding upwind with wave coming from the side. Felt like the wave could bend the mast somehow. I am not sure if it is a flexion or torsion problem and if there is actually a problem or I am not just used to it.

Anyway, I guess the best way would be to compare it to a new mast. How flexy should be a tall mast like this as new?
Is it possible to get used to it or it get even worse with speed?
I recorded so it’s possible to get a rough idea. Any help is welcome.


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tegirinenashi
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby tegirinenashi » Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 am

Simplified torsion test:



In general, from the stiffness perspective racing foils are at double disadvantage. First, they have less chord and thickness at the bottom; second, they are longer. Both factors are at least quadratic, if not cubic, which makes the problem quite severe. For example, given the same material, 110 cm long mast would be 45% more flexy compared to 90 cm one. I assumed the dependency is quadratic, but suspect that it is actually qubic. Then, the 12 mm thick mast is 58% more flexy compared to 14 mm one. (There, I'm pretty sure the dependency is cubic). Multiply those percentages and you have the issue which cannot be fixed with any material advances. (Standard modulus carbon fiber is rated at 33 MSI compared to high modulus carbon fiber at 42 MSI, which will give you only 30% more stiffness).

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lake Como (Italy)
Style: hydro foiler since 2017
Gear: Groove Skate 110 custom graphics, 2021 edition
101cm SAB Moses mast and wings
Ozone Hyperlinks - 5/7/9mtr
Ozone Chrono V4 11mtr,
Duotone click bar 2020, my own custom made lines
Ozone V4 click in bar, my own custom made lines
race lines and standard bar lines made up to any length any strength
most colours available, red-black-gold-vivid blue-pale blue
lines of all strengths, depower+ power lines fitted, just ask me.
fit yourself or free fitting service with quick turnaround
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Re: Used Moses masts

Postby Foil » Sat May 08, 2021 10:21 am

Cefirmeza wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:09 pm
After the suggestions on this post I decided to go for it but got some frustration after testing the foil and feel some instability at 30ish kph specially while riding upwind with wave coming from the side. Felt like the wave could bend the mast somehow. I am not sure if it is a flexion or torsion problem and if there is actually a problem or I am not just used to it.

Anyway, I guess the best way would be to compare it to a new mast. How flexy should be a tall mast like this as new?
Is it possible to get used to it or it get even worse with speed?
I recorded so it’s possible to get a rough idea. Any help is welcome.
That flex looks normal for what is a free ride mast, try holding the fuse at the ends and twist it hard to the left and right with the other end secured, looks alarming, but just try the same on the smaller 91 mast, yikes that is flexy,
the 82cm mast is noticeably stiffer, but its thicker, however the thing with that 82 cm thicker wider and stiffer mast is you find its just not great for an experienced hydrofoiler who wants to push it hard and fast, to jump it, and general just pushing it hard at high speed and in silence, as it is noisy in a humming sort of way, it lets go suddenly when pushed hard, even on toeside riding, and as for hard load ups just before a boost, well that is just frustrating, but back to the 111 mast its still a freeride mast, and others I know who have bought them weren't that over the moon with the feel from them when pushed, and they went back to the 101, or bought the Moses Havoc 106 race mast, which delivers a super smooth high speed ride, but at an eyewatering cost, its heavy as well, I was shocked when I picked it up, but if you ping the surface with your finger its like pinging a carbon steel girder. I am tempted to buy it to gain ultimate stability at speed, but I would want to translate that speed into boosting, and that looks less likely as its maybe too stiff to take a shock hard landing, the softer masts are a bit like using springs on a cars suspension I guess,
its all a bit of a compromise (and i would need to buy a custom board to accept the long tuttle fit of the havoc mast)
its a super interesting subject this whole mast question.
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