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Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

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Trent hink
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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby Trent hink » Sat May 15, 2021 9:42 pm

Im using it more and more often on my hydrofoil when I don’t feel like going in and switching to a smaller kite. Take care.

derek440
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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby derek440 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:55 am

Re backstall when I started racing I was surprised how much other racers have, many even shackle the powerlines via its termination ring directly to the harness hook but ride with their hands in a pretty normal distance from their body, so from that you can determine that there is lots of stall. Also they run a lot of sheeting travel (throw) so that you can have 10cm-20cm stall or more and still loads of room to sheet fully out for tacking. One of the reasons for this (there are several) is that race kites misbehave lots due to their high AR (and therfore low drag), especially in variable wind. They tend to not want to park and sit, rather they want to shoot around the window past the edge due to the lack of drag and then do bad things if you let them.

Having heaps of stall is your main tool to avoid this type of thing. Lots of racers will also adjust how much stall they want depepnding on conditions (using the adjustment knots on leaders) but then using the sheeting range (which is also larger than usual) to compensate and give extra adjustment. Having said all of that I noticed a racer recently on a video who was running no trimming system, just hard wired throw which seems crazy to me only he was killing it with this setup. regardless he would have had plenty of stall rigged.

Anyway RE the OP I thought he was actually asking how to fly the kite to stop it flopping in the water when the wind is light and you are in the water after falling off etc. In my case when things get super light and the kite is falling out of the sky I tend to hurry to get my feet in the straps keeping the kite back in the window by stalling etc and then start looping the kite to keep it powered and moving. Even if you can't water start I just keep looping and the kite doesn't go in the drink and you can wait for wind like that, but that might just be me (I am talking about less than 6kn type lulls/conditions). My favourite tip for people coming from LEI's is to tell them to never fly the kite to the edge of the window and expect the kite to sort itself out/park there using its drag, turn the kite upwards when approaching the window edge to keep it moving to keep it back in the power zone. I asked a top racer when I started with foil kites "how do you keep your kite flying nicely when you fly to the edge of the window and park it there at the edge" and he replied "I have no idea, I would never fly my kite like that".

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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby surfbird » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:18 am

derek440 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:55 am
Re backstall when I started racing I was surprised how much other racers have, many even shackle the powerlines via its termination ring directly to the harness hook but ride with their hands in a pretty normal distance from their body, so from that you can determine that there is lots of stall. Also they run a lot of sheeting travel (throw) so that you can have 10cm-20cm stall or more and still loads of room to sheet fully out for tacking. One of the reasons for this (there are several) is that race kites misbehave lots due to their high AR (and therfore low drag), especially in variable wind. They tend to not want to park and sit, rather they want to shoot around the window past the edge due to the lack of drag and then do bad things if you let them.

Having heaps of stall is your main tool to avoid this type of thing. Lots of racers will also adjust how much stall they want depepnding on conditions (using the adjustment knots on leaders) but then using the sheeting range (which is also larger than usual) to compensate and give extra adjustment. Having said all of that I noticed a racer recently on a video who was running no trimming system, just hard wired throw which seems crazy to me only he was killing it with this setup. regardless he would have had plenty of stall rigged.

Anyway RE the OP I thought he was actually asking how to fly the kite to stop it flopping in the water when the wind is light and you are in the water after falling off etc. In my case when things get super light and the kite is falling out of the sky I tend to hurry to get my feet in the straps keeping the kite back in the window by stalling etc and then start looping the kite to keep it powered and moving. Even if you can't water start I just keep looping and the kite doesn't go in the drink and you can wait for wind like that, but that might just be me (I am talking about less than 6kn type lulls/conditions). My favourite tip for people coming from LEI's is to tell them to never fly the kite to the edge of the window and expect the kite to sort itself out/park there using its drag, turn the kite upwards when approaching the window edge to keep it moving to keep it back in the power zone. I asked a top racer when I started with foil kites "how do you keep your kite flying nicely when you fly to the edge of the window and park it there at the edge" and he replied "I have no idea, I would never fly my kite like that".
Wow, wish I read this two years ago. So much valuable info for flying race-kites :-)
Only thing I have to add is, that sometimes I find it more easy to start if I stall the kite down in the wind window and then release the stall.
In this way I get some lift that makes it easier to get up on the foil, and the kite has enough speed to do a proper down stroke.

derek440
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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby derek440 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:59 am

Yeah I think it depends on the kite too whether it likes to loop for low-power water start or stall and shoot style but I agree its nice to have the kite heading up in the window as you are pulled out of the water to have the second down-stroke if needed. Also if its super light wind my last resort is a front loop (so with left foot forward send the kite from 12 to 11,10, 9 etc and then pivot it at about 5 o'clock and do it like your usual stalled power stroke up through the window but hopefull at this point your ass is already out of the water at least partially. Its the extended-play of the stall-and-shoot water start :) I think I've been mucking around with race kites for about 2 years now also, i bought a second-hand R1 and was immidiately hooked. it was a piece of crap btw but I was amazed at the feeling when it was briefly in the air and not the water.

Surfkiternew
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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby Surfkiternew » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:10 am

I solve the problem last year ..i buy a strutless kite..no more problem

Herman
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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby Herman » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:12 am

Going back to the op’s question I think, with practice, you naturally acquire the ability not to just sheet all in during lulls, as some might if they do not have backstall in their sheeting range. You also learn to sheet out during falls so as not to drag the kite backstalling into the water. As mentioned above in some of the excellent posts a long bar throw will help and also aid recovery of a backstalled kite.

Another “trick”, which I think is important, but rarely seems to be mentioned is simply developing the agility to let go of the bar. It has important safety implications for all kites but with slow foils I find myself doing it fairly often. Not sure I have explained its true value, but it is worth practicing releasing the bar as just another skill. It may also help cement the need to sheet out when appropriate as part of the mindset imho.

PS Releasing the bar if falling would probably be overkill if kite is not backstalled as you may well pull it into a luff/front stall/Hindenburg with the harness yank on the frontlines.

derek440
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Re: Trick to keep foil kite from stalling

Postby derek440 » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:03 am

I think the OP meant front-stalling rather than back-stalling but all good points anyway. Herman, agree about the danger of letting the bar go when crashing, usually when I crash, particularly crashing a tack which happens a lot I pull the bar in to back-stall the kite as it does yank the front lines as you fall in. If you pull the bar in as you crash a tack there is a much better chance the kite won't overfly and front-stall/luff.
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