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Self launch and self land option

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br44
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby br44 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:45 pm

JakeFarley wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:44 am
I thought about holding/walking up the lower back line (wearing sailing gloves which I used to always wear) to keep the kite coming down controlled. Not sure about holding both back lines, flying the kite, perhaps that might work.

I like BR44's landing technique, but it seems that you need more space than your line length (maybe 1-1/2 times) and with trees nearby to eat my kite I can't try it at my launch site.
It only takes 1 back line to fly a tethered kite: pull and push. Try it and you’ll see. I didn’t mean to suggest holding both back lines.

One potential issue with tethered is that you’re away from the bar (even if for just a short time) and can’t stop the kite from overflying if a gust comes through. Whereas with the carabiner method, you have the bar and can keep flying until you flag the kite.
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papasmerf
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby papasmerf » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:19 pm

br44 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:59 pm
irwe wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:51 am
br44 interesting concept but for most of my self-landing spots I have trees nearby and limited beach space so I cannot walk on shore with the kite. The kite is landed while I am still in the water. I tried my land Kite Catcher this week and it worked flawlessly ( 8 m FireFly V2 14 kts)
When you walk to your anchor (which could be setup right by the water) the kite can be at 12. As you walk back however, you need to bring the kite low; then at landing you can be in the water. But if the trees are very close, then yes it sounds like you want to keep using the hook method.
wehn you say you can be in the water during landing,, i thought this involved pulling in back line on the caribiner and walk towards kite at the same time to flag it out fast?

br44
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby br44 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:28 am

papasmerf wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:19 pm
br44 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:59 pm
irwe wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:51 am
br44 interesting concept but for most of my self-landing spots I have trees nearby and limited beach space so I cannot walk on shore with the kite. The kite is landed while I am still in the water. I tried my land Kite Catcher this week and it worked flawlessly ( 8 m FireFly V2 14 kts)
When you walk to your anchor (which could be setup right by the water) the kite can be at 12. As you walk back however, you need to bring the kite low; then at landing you can be in the water. But if the trees are very close, then yes it sounds like you want to keep using the hook method.
wehn you say you can be in the water during landing,, i thought this involved pulling in back line on the caribiner and walk towards kite at the same time to flag it out fast?
Right. I meant shallow water. You definitely want to be able to walk quickly at all times.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby TomW » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:40 pm

JakeFarley wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:28 am
I've thought of a tethered landing where you fly the kite fully depowered at 11 and hook the chicken loop into a carabiner attached to an anchor(screw anchor or sandbag). Check to see how long it takes for the kite to fall to 9 and determine if you can run fast enough to be there to catch the kite. Seems very sketchy though. Has anyone ever tried this method?
I tried this early in my career of using foil kites. It was a 9m hyperlink in fairly strong winds, about 15knots. A friend had recommended it.
So I have clean and clear beach, teather the cloop and unhook. Steer kite to 11 and then start kite on drop to beach. I run like hell towards kite, but 2/3 of the way there i see im not going fast enough. Im running as fast as I can. The kite hits the beach bounces and shoots off back to 12 and the other way at mach 1. It crashes in the sand dunes and grass that back the beach out of sight and collapses. Scary, I didn't kill anyone as it was cold and lonely day. Kite was ok.
Never tried that again..

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby TomW » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:43 pm

I like that carabiner and anchor idea. Clever and controlled. Plus the carabiner on leash with sand bag won't hurt any other kids, dogs, people that might stumble over it.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby mike pepper » Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:29 am

Shadyladys tennis ball solution is brilliant. We've been using for about a year a modified electric fence stake. See attached photo. Works well.
Attachments
IMG_5199.jpeg

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby CARMELHILL » Mon May 24, 2021 3:42 am

br44 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:42 am
I finally got a chance to test the self landing method that I had in mind for a while. The gear requirements are minimal. You need an anchor (in my case a bag filled with sand), a piece of rope or leash (not too short), and a carabiner. Steps:
1. Go to the anchor and clip the carabiner on a steering line.
2. Keep the kite low and walk back - until the carabiner reaches the bridle. Fly the kite so the steering line remains fairly straight.
3. Land by pulling the steering line, while letting the other lines go slack. The kite will land and stay flat on the ground without any drama. This works very well because there is simply no room for the kite to misbehave: the kite is 2-3m away from the anchor, as opposed to 20m+ away when you QR.
I used this this method today for the first time. It'll be my primary landing technique from now on. I think it puts the least amount of stress on the kite and bridles. I still have to fine tune the way it works, but exactly what I was looking for. I'll post a Youtube video in a few days.
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derek440
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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby derek440 » Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:40 am

br44's self landing idea is brilliant (we should consider starting a new thread for it as it is on page 10/11)! its the first new idea i have seen RE landing foil kites in strong winds and the load on the bridles is especially a big deal with race kites and I think this might work for race kites. Another huge plus is you can leave the sand anchor and leash/carabiner in your kite bag and only use it if you need to. Generally i will always ask someone to land me or ride with someone and land each other's kites. Very early on with foil-kites I also tried a tethered landing and it was a disaster the kite rolled back in the window as I was running to it and lit up through the window pulling out the tether post and flew into the sand dunes/trees. For months after that I kept a screw-in sand anchor on the beach in case I needed to self land (by putting brake over it) but dogs took it whilst I was kiting!

I think this method could really take away one of the main reasons people don't like foil kites. This could also make life much easier for racers who generally are always trying to meet up for training which is partially to avoid landing issues, but also in case you have a problem during your session. If this system works as well as it seems to I'll be keeping one of these in my bag and I may even use this over asking a stranger which is my usual method these days when other foilers aren't around. For me, until this idea has come along I always just hope someone can land me, or i can self-land using leaders but if the wind has come up and i'm way overpowered I have been stuck on a beach before on my own just waiting, unable to self-land due to being too lit up. Last time it happened i was just about to put the kite in the water when soemone turned up and landed me, but not before I had attempted two overpowered stall landings and dragged myself pretty badly.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby CARMELHILL » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:15 am

I was thinking about the simplicity of the carabiner landing too. I use a cheap drawstring backpack as a sand bag and clip a leash and carabiner to the strings. These things are so compact, if your doing a downwinder, you can fold it flat and stuff it in the back of your wetsuit and fill it with sand when your read to land. I use a seat harness, not a waist harness. During the summer no wetsuit season I would fold it and stuff it into my seat harness. I still wear wetsuit shorts under my bathing suit.

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Re: Self launch and self land option

Postby Trent hink » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:59 am

I find this thread very interesting, I used foil kites from right when I started out and for many years afterwards.

I really liked Flysurfer kites for a long time, and for a long time, in my experience, starting with the warrior, through the psycho 2 and up into the speed (1, I guess), landing was a simple matter of letting the kite go to the leash, which pulled the brake lines and set the kite down nicely in all but the strongest winds.

Then it was just a matter of securing the leash.

At the beach I would just dig my twin-tip into the sand and attach the leash to the closest foot strap.

Back in those days I would frequently ride in winter conditions, and then I carried an ice-screw with me for set-up and landing.

I fully understand the down-sides of that old system, and if you found yourself totally overpowered there was a chance that things could go pretty bad. And I have had the experience, twice, where my center line failed and the old leash design (with a plastic buckle!) could not handle the instantaneous load and left me swimming after the kite.

But I'd say that system worked very well in the vast majority of conditions.... except when I got into riding strapless on a surfboard, and of course, the more overpowered you were, the sketchier it got: Obvious weak point there.

I still don't see why that old system is not still used alongside a modern release to one line. It was just super easy to use in the vast majority of conditions, despite the fact that it had to be rigged to fit the kite.

In those days, Flysurfer kites always came with the bar and lines, can anyone even imagine that now?

These days I'm back to using Flysurfer, but Peak 4, and mostly for hydrofoiling. I always land by grabbing the outside lines to stall the kite, then just wrap the outside lines once or twice around the bar to keep the kite stalled on the ground.

If it's breezy, I might press the bar down into the sand before casually walking up to the kite.

If it's windy, or if I have been out on my surfboard, I probably have to grab a line hand over hand as I walk up to the kite, otherwise the whole rig can blow down the beach, but once landed in this manner, there is practically no chance that the kite will take off.

Understand, I know it's totally different handling in hydrofoil wind ranges.


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