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deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

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fun2kite
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deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby fun2kite » Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:44 pm

Hi all,

I have 2 questions below. Please help me to answer those. Thank you very much in advance.

1. Tuttle vs deep tuttle
All my boards were using a plate connection so far last 5 years, I finally ordered a board with a tuttle , but did not specify which kind I want.
I got a race board from groove kiteboarding with "deep tuttle" . They say , I can use any mast with it that uses either "Tuttle" or "Deep Tuttle" including Moses masts.

I am confused as some other riders told me that there is no standard for tuttle and unless you know exactly which mast will fit, you may brake the board or a mast.

So does anyone have experience using "groove radical V3" race board with deep tuttle with say Moses "tuttle" mast? as that's the only thing they have for racing.. I am considering MAST 106 CARBON - TUTTLE KITE - IKA REGISTERED for my board. https://sabfoil.com/en/products/mast-10 ... uttle-kite
And it it actually the case that when you have a deep tuttle, you can use either tuttle or deep tuttle?

2. race mast can't jump???

My next question is about the racing mast itself.. MAST 106 CARBON - TUTTLE KITE - IKA REGISTERED

If you look at description of the mast, it says that it is highly fragile and (I never seen a manufacturer say this.. they discourage you from free style jumping on it.
Specifically it say: " Micro fractures on the mast caused by accidental collisions or by freestyle use of this race-specific foil can cause the mast to break suddenly. For this reason, we recommend to avoid jumps and to check the mast carefully after a collision"

my kiting buddies tell me that some of them actually do jumps on the mast and so far so good. How many of you people here have this mast and how many jump on it? I am not a good racer and I will do some fun racing on this board, but not for serious competition. But I love jumping and in fact , this is my one of my favorite thing to do on a foil. Backrolls, high jumps..

Should I avoid this mast and just go for the plate instead? My board has both rails and deep tuttle. the only problem is that I would have to go for 101 moses mast as they don't have a plate mast with 106 size.
So it's not really a racing mast.

Thanks for your help.

-D.

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cglazier
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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby cglazier » Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:20 pm

A board that accepts a deep Tuttle mast will also accept standard or medium Tuttle mast. You may need longer screws.

As for jumping, racing gear like the 106 mast is designed to be very light and fast, not durable. You can jump it.. just don't expect a warranty if it starts to crack.. Personally I am happy jumping with my 101 mast and I find it plenty fast.

:wink: CG
tuttle.JPG
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fun2kite
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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby fun2kite » Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:14 am

Thank you man. Its useful info. Will consider buying 101 again.
cglazier wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:20 pm
A board that accepts a deep Tuttle mast will also accept standard or medium Tuttle mast. You may need longer screws.

As for jumping, racing gear like the 106 mast is designed to be very light and fast, not durable. You can jump it.. just don't expect a warranty if it starts to crack.. Personally I am happy jumping with my 101 mast and I find it plenty fast.

:wink: CG

tuttle.JPG

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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby evan » Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:57 am

All latest moses 111 and 106 masts we used here for racing eventually cracked at the base, depending on the rider weight and strength it took weeks or months to happen.

So be careful with those masts, most likely they fail due to uneven loads when you ventilate a wingtip while hiking Upwind very powered.

Considering tuttle boxes. Chubanga, Levitaz and mikes lab for example use a cut off deep tuttle. Moses is somewhat in between.
They all fit deep tuttle boards, but thin boards made for a cut mast won't fit a deep tuttle or the slightly less deep Moses/Sabfoil 106 masts.
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Herman
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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby Herman » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:54 am

Does the Tuttle head fit deeper in the Deep Tuttle box or does it still fit flush with the outer edge of the box, leaving a gap in the box on the deck side? If it just fits deeper maybe you would not need longer bolts?

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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby evan » Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:13 pm

Herman wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:54 am
Does the Tuttle head fit deeper in the Deep Tuttle box or does it still fit flush with the outer edge of the box, leaving a gap in the box on the deck side? If it just fits deeper maybe you would not need longer bolts?
It is the top that is cut off, so you have a gap inside the board while the mast stays flush with the bottom of the board(besides tolerances of different boxes/masts)
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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby cor » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:48 pm

My experience with tuttle is that this system is not suitable for jumping at all as I´ve seen three Moses 106 tuttle foils break in the last season. If you are always landing perfectly it´s not issue, but we all know no one does, so likely, any 106 will break sooner or later, depending on rider weight etc. Either the foil itself breaks, or the tuttle box in the board. Plate connection is much more suitable as it allows way more room for error as even force from the side can be handled better.

>Should I avoid this mast and just go for the plate instead?
Yes.

PS I jump on the Duotone Daytona. It´s cheaper, way more stable than the 106 and jumps better.
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evan
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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby evan » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:46 am

cor wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:48 pm
Either the foil itself breaks, or the tuttle box in the board.
In what boards did the tuttle box break? Didn't see that happen on the better racing boards.

We should make a list of foiling gear that doesn't fail with normal use! (or a list of weak foils, pick the one that is easier :lol: )

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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby Floating around » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am

evan wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:46 am
cor wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:48 pm
Either the foil itself breaks, or the tuttle box in the board.
In what boards did the tuttle box break? Didn't see that happen on the better racing boards.

We should make a list of foiling gear that doesn't fail with normal use! (or a list of weak foils, pick the one that is easier :lol: )
That is not a bad idea, even if it was a bit tongue in cheek.
Would be hard to get real numbers, bigger companies would be over represented due to the larger numbers sold.

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Re: deep tuttle vs tuttle compatibility

Postby cor » Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:17 pm

evan wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:46 am
In what boards did the tuttle box break? Didn't see that happen on the better racing boards.

We should make a list of foiling gear that doesn't fail with normal use! (or a list of weak foils, pick the one that is easier :lol: )
Moses (Sabfoil) T75. But as mentioned that was not due to normal use but due to jumping.


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